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R. Macrandra Help

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by daniel deacu, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    another question that i have this days... when i turn on my lights, sometimes in the morning, all my red plants look much better, healthy and more red...after 5 or 6 hours, in the evening, 1h before the lighting stops, the plants look darker, the leaves slightly curved, especially the red ones ... I can say they are too red, the next day, they look better again...
     
  2. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    update: it was a Manganese and Zinc deficiency. now. all plants are fine.

    IMG_5356.JPG
     
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  3. Allwissend

    Allwissend Article Editor
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    Hi Daniel,

    thanks for reporting back. What changed in the meantime to get the plants looking this good ?

    Glad you solved it, but Zn is immobile and Mn is somewhat mobile so new leaves are more likely to show deficiency symptoms. Did the pH or KH change in this interval ?
     
  4. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    the only change was: i replace de Zn EDTA chelate with Zn Sulphate. and i add more in my own micro mix... i switch to a ratio of 3:1 (Fe: Mn) from 4:1. KH/GH is still the same. this photos are from today. i still didn;t finde the answer to: why plants look much better in the morning??

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  5. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    now, no GSA or GDA ... i have some problems with some Fuzz algae....
    I think it is the result of a water change, made with poor quality water from the tap... some causes for which it appeared?
     
  6. Allwissend

    Allwissend Article Editor
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    Thanks for coming back with the reply. Is this the same tank as in the first post ? Interesting ... would you be open to go back to Zn-EDTA after a while of growing R. macrandra without problems ? Are the other micronutrients also chelated or non-chelated ?
    I don't know if it is just the photo, but the leaf size on R. macrandra looks rather small. What is your N/NO3 dosing like?

    Do you also get cupping (leaves drawing near the stem) from fine leafed stem plants like R. wallichii ? From the symptoms described, light is too intense and plants cannot produce enough chlorophyll/chloroplasts to keep up with the light demand, two things then happen...absent chlorophyll the normal leaf pigments become visible and/or the pigmentation is increased to protect the cells from light stress.

    Leaf curving might just have to do with differential growth of cells or increased concentrations of molecules inside the cells after a full day of photosynthesis. During the night the plant gets to redistribute some of those molecules to roots, new buds, shaded leaves and the leaves straighten a bit.

    For me , fuzz algae appears when plant mass was significantly lowered, NH4 dosing or present from natural sources or sunlight hits the aquarium. Check that sunlight exposure is limited, now with summer the sun changes its angle and might just get to the aquarium. Also , yes NH4 contamination in tap may be possible. With good plant growth the algae should go away.

    Hope this helps and let me know how things are going.
     
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  7. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    hello!!! thx for the reply.
    this is my only tank now...and , yes, is the same ... I will try again zinc edta ... I'll wait to grow macrandra very much and I will test it again for a few weeks,but these days i put in, a 2x zinc EDTA dosage. i see on macrandra 2-3 leaves with the same old , green, spots :D ... in my micro mix. i put: Zn sulphate, Boric acid, Fe DTPA. Mn DTPA , Mo and Copper is EDTA chelate. the idea was to get out as much EDTA chelators as possible, I was confronted with a white cloud of water in the aquarium from the EDTA . after i replace de the zn chelate, my water is crystal clear.
    i dose every day . 1.6ppm of NO3 from KNO3 .the macrandra leaf has the same size. is just the photo...
    my tank is in the dark side :D part of the room. no sunlight ever :D ...


    the reason I have been testing different fertilizer variants or chelators was because I want to observe and learn as much as possible from the growth of these plants. I just want to grow healthy and beautiful plants

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  8. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    this is my tank now.

    IMG_5460-2.jpg
     
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  9. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    in terms of algae fuzz. on Ludwigia Repens Rubin, I have a slight increase of this type of algae halfway to the top of the leaves, what I found on the internet ... a slight lack of copper, which has the effect of maintaining healthy leaves for a longer time, thus a deficency of copper appears at the top of the leaves, right? this is my mistake, i've tried to get out as much as possible of the EDTA chelator...
     
  10. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    i can't find anything about the excess of Mn, Copper. Zn. in aquarium plants and i've tried a 3:1 ratio of Fe:Mn. until now it is OK. ... any other sugestions???!!
     
  11. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    update. i use again Zn EDTA chelate, dosing in aquarium for a few days. Rotala Macrandra start to show again the same green spots. like a decoloration from red to green. all the other plants look just fine, they are healthy, with no algae on them... the only plant that i have some problems with it is L. Repens Rubin. it got some Fuzz(the old fuzz problem) algae on the , i can say, old leaves, but is not the lower leaves, is somewere in the upper part of the plant, the new leaves are healthy , nice and very colored... i don't know what to do anymore...

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  12. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    fuzz algae began to propagate to neighboring plants...

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  13. skija

    skija Lifetime Members
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    All the problem you have here is co2 , you trimmed the plants and they grew ok , now they are big and bushy , so they consume more co2 , so you need to add a bit more co2 . So you got fuzz algae , search on internet about it , its always CO2 issue .

    All the other stuff you were writing about , Mg , Zn .......etc deficiency are all wrong .

    Don't let the plants to grow big to reach the surface , you need to trim them , when they are big they cut the flow and co2 circulation in the tank . You have a very fast growing tank so needs to be trimmed often .

    Clean the tank from dead plants and plants that have algae when you do the water change .

    Good luck
     
  14. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    is not a CO2 problem, all my fish are gasping sometimes at the surface. the dropchecker is yellow all time...maybe with almost 1h before the lights go on. i trim all my plants weekly, i clean all dead leaves or parts of them... believe me, i am crazy about cleaning, I am very demanding in terms of maintenance. i use 2 reactors for disolving CO2. my plants are pearling almost all the time when lights are on... trust me, is not CO2... for fuzz algae is some nutrient/element that i don't find it, i don't find the balance for him...if i only know what is that element...??!!
    i use to dose Ureea and i never see fuzz in my aquarium, now, i stop using it ,I thought this was to blame... maybe this is the problem...

    this is my aquarium today.

    IMG_5584.jpg
     
  15. KeeperOfASilentWorld

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    Why not start using a "Ph pen" for CO2 measurements? It costs around 10-20 dollars or euros.
     
  16. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    thx for advice
    if you refer to a Ph meter, I already use, but both the Ph meter and the PH controller can mislead ... there are plenty of aquarium buffers that misinterpret their measurement
     
  17. KeeperOfASilentWorld

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    Yes a pH pen is a type of pH meter. A pH controller may be troubling due to buffers but I do not think that the use of a pH pen for the precise measurement of CO2 would be misleading. Tom Barr himself swears by them.

    Have you measured your pH drop using your pH pen? Where is your pH and KH just before lights on and just before lights off? I think it will be useful to eliminate these two questions and be done with them in order to start looking at other variables.
     
    #37 KeeperOfASilentWorld, May 18, 2018 at 2:14 PM
    Last edited: May 18, 2018 at 2:26 PM
  18. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    this is what i use http://www.adwainstruments.com/pocket-testers/103-waterproof-pocket-testers/professional-waterproof-ph-temp-pocket-testers/83-ad12 and JBL Test PH.kit.
    I've changed the strategy, quit to use the tap water directly for WC ,now i prepare the water the day before to drop from KH 6( as tap water have) with HCL, i let water almost 24h with an air pump to raise the pH of the water to 6.5 and I have KH 0 water. hydrochloric acid removes carbonates from water with this method all my plants look much healty,

    I do not want you to understand me wrong, but it's not a CO2 problem, I've analyzed and adjusted how well I could to have the maximum amount of CO2 in the aquarium long before the lights go on, I measured the PH difference, it's close to 1 PH drop . I have a dropchecker placed in the farthest corner of the aquarium. I use two CO2 reactors, with pumps of 510 liters / hour each that dissolve co2 very well, two months ago i did not have these reactors, i used CO2 difuser and have no problem with fuzz algae...this is why i think is a imbalance problem. i read something about PO4 and Ca imbalance or Ca:Mg ...
     
  19. skija

    skija Lifetime Members
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    If you thinking its an imbalance of ferts stop dosing those big amounts of PO4 , in first post you say you have 8ppm PO4 , you need max of 2 ppm of PO4 in the water column , more than 2 ppm I don't think its helping.
    And the reason I say you have co2 issue its because of the tank flow , because the plants are too big and the flow in the tank its blocked by the plants . Trim the plants(to half of their size) and see how they are growing , if they grow fine than its clear what's your problem . How is your flow in the tank ?
    You also say Ph drop "it's close to 1 PH drop" , but how much is exactly ?
     
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  20. Phishless

    Phishless Lifetime Member
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    This is one of my major problems too, damn jungles!
    I use a spraybar in the back and too many tall plants changes the whole dynamic in my tank.
    Then the green hair algae starts.
     
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