Questions regarding Algae Scrubbers

[Noledoc]

I am planning to set up a very large planted tank. I've been reading about algae scrubbers as a means of reducing the algae risk by removing nitrates and phosphates with the scrubbers. I do recognize that some of what is removed by the scrubbers should be returned with controlled dosing. I am very interested in hearing your wisdom here.
Also in mixing Soilmaster wi a small layer of Miracle Gro, all to be covered wi an inch or so of small pea gravel.
I await your thoughts.
Thanks.
Paul

 

[Gerryd]

Hi and welcome..

Please provide as much detail as possible on the tank size, volume, filter, lights, equipment. Don't forget your goals....

So, if you dose per the EI method you would do weekly 50% water changes (or more if you want) that would export a lot of excess nutrients....

You can also add more plants as well.

I think it would work well in theory, but unsure in practice....

If injecting c02 (are you going to use this) and using EI, and dense planting, when done correctly, very little algae will be present anyway.

I know Tom and many others have very little algae with 180 gallons and more...

If you go the non c02 route, you want the nutrients from the fish and other organics for the plants. The intention in this method is to use a nutrient rich substrate with supplemental water column dosing....so your soilmaster combo may work well here...

I am hesitant to say more w/o more information...

Hope this helps..

 

[greengreen]

I had one a saltwater tank and it did well but just didn't have a big enough screen to fully stock it, I'm about to try a ATS on a discus 120gallon tank with bare bottom and a couple of java ferns on drift wood but if your doing it to remove extra nitrates and phosphates it wouldn't be that useful if you going to have it planted as the plants would compete for nitrates and phosphates and then you would end up with nitrate and phosphate deficiency.

instead you can just get some fast growing stems they would do this for you instead i use sunset hygro for this as it's more like a weed when it grows and sucks all the nitrates and phosphates out and when it grows to tall just chop it and ether throw away, give it away, replant it or sell it on forums, i think a heavy planted non Co2 tank with fast growing stem would do a better job at removing nitrate and phosphate And controling algae from your tank, and if you have a big plant biomass (heavy planted) you won't get algae problem unless you crank up the Co2 to fast or change your water too often on a non Co2 tank this just my opinion an what I have experienced.

 

[pepetj]

I used an algae turf aka algae scrubber with great success in a 20gal custom built Nano Reef. My readings of nitrates and phosphates were undetectable by aquarium tests.

I though about it when I was in the planning/reflective stage for keeping Discus in planted tanks. As I was getting enthusiastic of this idea, I kept grasping the concepts behind this and... I stumbled with EI. I have implemented EI without problems in my Planted Discus tanks.

Bottom line: why do I want to encourage algae growth to uptake nitrogen and phosphorus when I can control how much I add to the tank for the plants to thrive?

Algae scrubber in planted tanks might make sense if not using EI and leaning towards no water changes regime but I find (at least conceptually) a major problem with this idea. I would be creating conditions within the system (outside the display tank) to encourage algae growth that likely will strip nutrients from the water column (in the display tank) that my plants need in the first place. Doing this seems to me like inducing limiting factors (in this case for two macro-nutrients: N and P) that will impact plant growth if not their overall health.

Experimenting with this is interesting. Most often than not biochemical process don't happen exactly the way I think they do...

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

 

[Noledoc]

Pepetj,
Thanks very much. I just posted a more detailed description of the tanks in question on the forum General Plant Topics. I'd like your feedback if you have the time to take a look. The questions you ask are helpful and thought provoking.

 

[Noledoc]

Gerry, I did find it. I'm abandoning this post and returning to the one in which I elaborated info re the tanks in question. I'll add about my light plants.
Thanks,

 

["Q"]

Bottom line: why do I want to encourage algae growth to uptake nitrogen and phosphorus when I can control how much I add to the tank for the plants to thrive?

You infer here that nutrients cause algae. However, our problem with alga is not the availability of a broad spectrum of nutrients, per Mr. Barr, but most likely an imbalance.

This combined with the fact that the cure for more than a couple types of algal infestations is to let them run their course implies that algal scrubbing would enhance the EI approach not detract from it.

If we were to light our scrubbers more intensely than the main tank then we would also have an "early warning system" that might come in handy for detecting problems before they manifest in the main tank.

Of course theres issues with implementation, I'll let Mr. Barr and others chime in on nutrient leaking, increase spores and the other things

 

[Tom Barr]

Pepetj,
Thanks very much. I just posted a more detailed description of the tanks in question on the forum General Plant Topics. I'd like your feedback if you have the time to take a look. The questions you ask are helpful and thought provoking.

The focus here is on plants, not removal of nutrients, algae and plants both do that, but you want to cultivate plants, not algae, so focus on plants and their needs.

You would not try and not add any fertilizer to a farm to stop the weeds from growing, you'd wait till the right time and plant your crops and then fertilizer once the crop plants are in place.
Then you have few weed issues, and if you weed aggressively at the start, then once the crop grows up a bit..then they shade out the the weeds.

Same sort of thing here, add lots of plants, add ferts, water changes/ferts/pruning etc........then the plants take over and define the system, not nutrients.
From there, things go pretty well and easily.

I used ATS in the past myself, it was what led me to more work with plants.

 

[Noledoc]

Tom,
I appreciate your seemingly endless patience. Since I've gone thru the scrubber consideration I've learned enough additionally to better understand the relationships between plants, algae, ferts, light and CO2. I just wanted to say thank you again.
Paul