Question on the composition of Plantex CSM + B

[roman1967]

question on the composition of Plantex CSM + B

Sorry for my English, I write you from Russia

received a parcel from http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com and saw that the composition has changed:
Plantex CSM + B is composed of 1.50% magnesium, 0.10% chelated copper, 7.0% chelated iron, 2.0% manganese, 0.06% molybdenum, 0.40% zinc, 0.04% boron.

wrote them a letter and received this reply:

hello
You have to describe Plantex CSM + B Set consisting of:

Plantex CSM + B is composed of 1.50% magnesium, 0.10% chelated
Copper, 7.0% chelated iron, 2.0% manganese, 0.06% molybdenum, 0.40%
Zinc, 0.04% boron.

This composition is very different from the traditional, well-known To all of the
Mg - 1,40%,
Fe - 6,53%,
Mn - 1,87%
B - 1,18%
Zn - 0,37%
Cu - 0,09%
Mo - 0,05%

I nesmog find data on changes in the composition at
Http://www.barrreport.com , it may be a typo??
If the errors in your new part no, please give a link to information
On changes in the composition

Sincerely, Roman

-------------------------------------------------- ------

Hello Roman,
Teh compostition of Plantex CSM + Boron is listed in the FAQ's of our
website, http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com. This is information is copied
directly from the package of CSM as it comes from the factory. The
analysis is as follows: Plantex CSM + B is composed of 1.50%
magnesium, 0.10% chelated copper, 7.0% chelated iron, 2.0% manganese,
0.06% molybdenum, 0.40% zinc, 0.04% boron.
Thank you for your interest in our products. Have a great day and
thank you for your business. Julia Adkins, aquariumfertilizer.com

Fertilizer calculator on your site, too, believes the old structure, what to do? Who to believe??

Sincerely, Roman

 

[nipat]

The original CSM has no boron. Sellers has been adding boron to it themselves.

But when aquariumfertilizer.com said it contained boron from factory,
I feel confused too.

BTW, CSM is now called Nutritrace, still contains no boron.
(Page 16)
http://www.plantprod.com/upload/File/2011PlantexProductGuide.pdf

 

[roman1967]

nipat,
Let's hope that this is a mistake in the description, but not in the chemical composition of the fertilizer is sold

Thanks for the link

 

[Tom Barr]

Greg and the new owner always added the B, just like the old days when B was added by the individuals and mixed with CMS.
We called it CMS+B, not just CMS.
or I guess now "Nutritrace" +B

 

[roman1967]

Том Барр,
Thanks for your help
I really hope it's just a mistake in the description and the content of boron in the fertilizer did not change

 

[roman1967]

just got a response from aquariumfertilizer.com

Hello Roman,
One lb of boron is added to 25 lbs of Plantex CSM to make Plantex CSM
+ boron. I hope this is helpful. Have a great day and thank you for
your business. Julia Adkins, aquariumfertilizer.com

 

[Biollante]

Long Live CSM+B OR Nutritrace+B or Whatever+B

Hi,

25 parts of anything plus 1 part Boron is 0.0384615% Boron, normal rounding puts it at 0.04%, for what it is worth.:gw

Biollante

 

[roman1967]

25 parts of anything plus a part Boron is 0.0384615% Boron

I agree with you, but we will get 0,04% H3BO3, in which pure boron only 17.5%

turns out that now in the mix Plantex CSM + B, B net nearly half, or I'm wrong

 

[roman1967]

if I remember correctly, in order to get the traditional recipe CSM + B

Fe - 6.53%
Mn - 1.87%
Mg - 1.4%
Zn - 0.37%
Cu - 0.09%
Mo - 0.05%
B - 1.18%

we need to mix
14 parts of CSM
1 part H3BO3

 

[Biollante]

Fuzzy Memory Afflicts Me

Hi,

If I recall the Boron debate there were quite a few folk that liked the 14 parts CSM and 1 part Boron that would be 0.06666%, could be rounded to 0.07%. I do not recall the 1.18% range...

I believe the concern was the toxicity of Boron; Boric acid is after all an insecticide, invertebrates in particular are susceptible.

I cannot recall for sure, some research whiz might take this on but, it seems to me that the 25:1, Plantex CSM to Boron ratio became accepted in the late 1990’s that was in the last millennium that’s like over a thousand years ago! :gw

Biollante

 

[Biollante]

Oops...

Hi,

Well, I just found this http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html

So never mind, just old Evilplantmonster ramblings...

Biollante

 

[roman1967]

I do not recall the 1.18% range ...

I looked everywhere the same composition B - 1.18%, and by the way before coming out of the store packets from this figure


http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8006
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/66458-enough-iron-csm-b.html
http://mironovich.blogspot.com/2009/01/plantex-csmb.html

http://calc.petalphile.com/mobile
wet's calcYour dose of 100.0 g Plantex CSM+B into your 1000.0 mL container, with doses of 1.0 mL into a 1.0L tank gives:

Element ppm/degrees
B 1.18
Cu 0.09
Fe 6.53
Mg 1.40
Mn 1.87
Mo 0.05
Zn 0.37


Then I have another question, should improve the content of boron or leave as is

 

[Biollante]

Good Catch, Roman1967

Hi,

Well, I will say Wet’s calculator (cannot get more definitive than that!) does indeed assume that Boron is 1.18% of CSM+B. Maintaining ~5.5:1 Fe:B

Further the highly esteemed writer and aquatic plant aficionado, Tom Barr in his scintillating work Boron and Molybdenum’s Role In Plants directly endorses a ratio of 5:1 Fe:B. http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2061-Barr-Report-Newsletter-Boron-and-Molybdenum

I accept the distinct possibility that Boron may be deficient for those relying on CSM+B with Boron at 25:1 CSM:Boron, 0.04% Boron, particularly for those maintaining minimal dosing.

Biollante

 

[roman1967]

Biollante

Thanks for the tip and link, sorry just unable to read the whole article, I have no access to

 

[Biollante]

For the Record I Am A Satisfied Customer of aquariumfertilizer.com.

Hi,

It appears to me that the calculations are based on volume. :gw

Using Boron as 17.484% of Boric acid based on the natural boron isotope as 19.78% boron-10 and the majority isotope 80.22% boron-11 of Boron, yielding an atomic weight of 10.811.

Based on volumetric analysis 13.8:1 CSM:Boric acid results in 1.1835% Boron.

My suspicion is that rather than mass or gravimetric calculations the 14:1 CSM:Boric acid results from purity and rounding consideration. From a practical point of view the 14:1 CSM: Boric acid is probably (note I didn’t say “likely”) going to get the hobbyist close to the 1.1835% Boron.

For our purposes getting 1.2% Boron is close enough.

I had assumed (bad idea, I know) that aquariumfertilizer.com is using Boric acid as their source of Boron, were it “pure” boric acid, 25:1 CSM:Borax would result in 0.067% Boron.

My analysis suggests they are using Borax, high grade Borax would yield about 0.0423% Boron. Off the supermarket shelf Borax at 25:1 CSM:Borax would yield about 0.041%. Either of course rounds to 0.04%, my money is on a trip to Costco.

To get to the magic 1.1835 so as to be within range Tom Barr’s recommended 5:1 Fe:B and the ~5.5:1 Fe:B of the definitive Wet’s calculator, using off the supermarket shelf Borax would require 8:1 CSM:Borax, yielding 1.1855% Boron.

Biollante

 

[Biollante]

CSM+B: A Divorce?

Hi,

Of course the 8:1 CSM:Borax required to give us the 1.1855% B now means we have diluted the other micronutrients by 3.125, where it is no longer near the Tom Barr recommended 5:1 Fe:B. Or Wet’s ~5.5:1 Fe:B.

Iron is no longer 6.53% of the 1.1855% B, CSM+B mixture, iron now comprises 2.09% of the new mixture.

Perhaps it would be simpler to dose Boron separately?

Biollante

 

[roman1967]

that is, do you think that they are added to CSM Na2B4O7 * 10Н2O (B -11.33%)

 

[Biollante]

97% Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate-Borax

Hi,

I am pretty sure it is at maximum 97.5% sodium tetraborate decahydrate, Na2B4O7•10H2O available in the US as Borax, an inexpensive cleaning and laundry product.

“Pure” sodium tetraborate decahydrate is about 11.34% Boron so 97.5% would be 11.1%.

I believe anything from 10.7-11.1% would be acceptable in calculating the Boron in off the shelf sodium tetraborate decahydrate, also known as Borax.

In an earlier post I said volumetric measurement as Nipat pointed out in an another thread that should have been gravimetric or mass based.

Biollante

 

[Tom Barr]

MgSO4 and Borax are both cheap and common.

 

[Biollante]

Budget Deficits, Governments Defaulting… Now A Boron Deficit!

MgSO4 and Borax are both cheap and common.

Hi Tom,

Cheap and common, I am as cheap and common as they come, so nothing against either, in fact I am all for cheap and common…

The question I have is what to do about the apparent Boron deficit?

The simple answer would seem to be to dose Boron in addition to Plantex CSB or Nutritrace or whatever it is these days.

Presumably anyone dosing micronutrients under EI will want 5:1 Fe:B.:gw

So for every eight parts Plantex CSM/Nutritrace we will wish to add one part Borax.

For those of us with the deficient Plantex CSM/Nutritrace “+B,” 0.38%, for every 12.5 parts Plantex CSM/Nutritrace we will need to add one part Borax.

Just as a note, a one-liter solution of 91 grams Borax and distilled water yield approximately one percent Boron.

Biollante