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Qs for emersed HC in Aqua Soil

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by George Farmer, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    Tom gave me this idea a few weeks ago from another thread.

    [​IMG]

    This is my 30cm cube. Photo taken full of water, as I'm soaking the AS.

    Lighting is 18w PC T5 6500K with built-in reflector and cooling fans.

    Substrate Aqua Soil Amazonia Powder.

    I would like to try growing HC emersed but am not sure what exactly to do...

    I can get as many pots as I like direct from Tropica. :D

    Do I simply break them up and plant like normal?

    How often to I need to mist the HC? It cannot dry out, is that right?

    Should is mist with anything special? RO water with nutrients?

    Will I need to seal the cover to keep humidity?

    What temperature is ideal?

    What photoperiod? 12 hours?


    Many thanks!
     
  2. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    soo many questions... :)

    HC is grown emersed at tropica, without any cover. They're misted... a few times an hour.

    I would simply cover the gravel with water, then cover the tank with clear plastic film.

    You could plant them in little 1x1cm patches, and just wait.. or get more pots, and plant them in larger patches.

    If I plant submersed I actually pin the patches with a...... toothpick! right through the heart of the ugly ba... sorry..
    yes, a toothpick or match or whatever... through the patch and into the gravel...

    you can, for a period of time, lift the cover and spray them.
    I use rainwater with nutrients..
     
  3. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    temperature .. 24-26°
    photoperiod well.. I'd give them 10 hours.. or place them in a bright place, and only use the lamp when it's starts getting dark outside.
     
  4. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    Hey Martin! Nice to see you on here...

    Thanks very much for the answers.
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    George, the temps are cooler here these days but they are fine even in the 12-15C at night, it might get to 28C in the day.
    I raised a rug indoors with a shop light at 20C.

    I moistened the soil. Not enough to cover the HC.

    No misting is needed if you have a cover.

    The internal humidity will be pretty high as the tank warms up from the light.

    I use long 3-4cm strands, you can use clumps also.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    Thanks, Tom.

    It sounds too easy. I wonder why more folk don't try this. Make a nice article for PFK I think.

    Cheers.
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    It is very easy, not sure either.

    Folks put up many barriers in their way to doing the hobby.

    I wonder why more have not done this.
    I guess some just want to make their lives harder:)

    Not me, I'm lazy:)

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. Danus

    Danus Junior Poster

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    It's also a great way to grow a glosso carpet, although it means waiting a month longer till you can fill the tank and get the rest of the layout happening. I just sat mine on a north facing windowsill.
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I've posted this all over lately:

    I've been toying with a few ideas that are I suppose radical to most, but not really when you think about it.

    This method allows you to set the tank up flawlessly in the start up phase which is arguably the hardest and toughest phase of planted tank care.

    You can grow in many species of plants such as HC, or gloss or most any nay pesky foreground plant without any water other than enough to soak the sediments well for 4-8 weeks first then after it's well grown in, add water and fish. You simply cover the tank with a glass lid or plastic like a terrarium, there's plenty of water in the sediment.

    By not adding the water, you can grow the plants flawlessly, no algae, no water changes every 2 to 4 days etc, no NH4, no fish uprooting things etc. The tank is also completely cycled buy the time you add the water to fill things up.

    This is the Easiest method to start up a tank without dosing, water changes, any algae, completely cycled tank etc.

    The first 2 months are the toughest and this avoids it all.

    Just cover the tank, add light and sediment(ADA AS works great BTW and cost about the same most sediments, you can mist the plants if you use flourite black etc with a NPK and trace solution 2x a week otherwise)

    You can add the taller stem plants after you fill the tank up and/or other plants that ADAPT FAST.

    Pretty darn easy.

    I made a nice rug of HC this way using nothing more than a 1" layer of ADA aqua soil, filled the water to about 7/8" depth, added more water about once every 1-2 weeks to keep it moist and after 4 weeks, the tank is entirely grown in.

    No dosing, no water changes, no CO2 issues, no uprooting, no nothing. Easy as it gets.

    Bacteria will cycle after about 3 weeks or so, about the time frame the rug grows in using the ADA AS. So the NH4 is now been converted to NO3 and has plenty of bacteria to keep it low.

    Some will say they wanna add their fish right away, then can do the old way if they want to, but this method makes life much easier and a little patience can make the tank look very nice with virtually no work.

    Not many trade offs here.
    And the success rate ought to be near 100% without any issues with algae, growth etc.

    I do not think there are any other methods that can come even remotely close to that for the general plant hobbyist.

    Crypts have long been grown as well as swords, Anubias, hair grass, Gloss, Dwarf clover, Utricularia grammifolia, as matter of fact, most of the plants that Tropica carries are emergent grown.............

    I'd wait to add most stem plants later as you add the water. Then a week later, add shrimps, algae eaters and another week, the main fish.

    If you dose well, do the water changes etc, good tending of the CO2.......the system should start off and stay looking good from then on.

    I think this method can make many folk's life far easier and less labor and far better results than the "water in the tank methods" to start a new tank up.

    I've grown Crypts for many many years this way, but given the issues, taking the next step with the start phase of the tanks that submersed seems pretty reasonable.

    Don't you think so?
    Many want a nice rug of various foreground plants and this is dang easy way to get a massive rug pre rooted.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  10. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    I've been toying with an idea for a scape for a while now.
    I got inspired by George's questions, and decided to mash my idea with George's and see what would come out..

    it ended up with this:

    Bjergront010.jpg

    Bjergr_nt004.png

    it's a one plant tank so far. I haven't finished yet.. I think.

    I later covered the tank with plastic wrap to keep it nice and moist.
     
  11. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    Looks great, Martin. Let us know how it goes, won't you?

    I should be contacting Lars this week for some HC... ;)
     
  12. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    sure.


    here's a few progression photos

    24/09/07
    Bjergront010.jpg
    30/09/07
    rockygreen002_2007_09_30.png
    24/09/07
    Bjergr_nt004.png
    30/09/07
    rockygreen0012007_09_30.png

    growth is rather good i reckon.

    I covered with plastic foil, and I've sprayed the tank a few times with plain water. I mostly sprayed because of the height of some of the plants. The gravel rises a lot inside the stonering, so I figured the water might drain away.
     
  13. George Farmer

    George Farmer Lifetime Members
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    Sweet!

    Worth a journal on its own, Martin... ;)
     
  14. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    I have one @ akvarieplanter.dk, in Danish.

    there's not much to write about it yet.
     
  15. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Even though you have a journal elsewhere, please don't stop posting pictures of your progress here. This is very interesting!
     
  16. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    a small update...
    in my other journal people were pestering me for a full frontal... ;)

    anyway, the tank:

    03-10-07

    [​IMG]

    What do you think? scapewise as well?

    of course not much plant scaping, but the stone arrangement...
     
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, the larger clumps of HC are growing in well.
    So is this method easier to have the tank grow in thus far or would you rather do the water method?:D

    As you can see, the weed grows in well and rather fast.
    In 2 more weeks, the tank will be fully grown in and ready for CO2, water and nutrients.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  18. Martin

    Martin Lifetime Charter Member
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    For a tank such as this, it is a lot easier.
    Now a fully planted.. hmm.. I can't say.
    If I have the layout sussed, and really just need to stick the plants in the right places, then this method would work ok as well..
    The tank is actually getting ready for a small exhibition.. so I hope you're right on the 2 weeks grow in time..

    The problem with fully scaping a tank is that some plants will lay flat because there's no water to hold them up, this may interfere with scaping and/or shadow other plants..

    Anyone tried it yet?
     

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