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Pump too powerful

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Gerryd, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    I see that I have to throttle back my pump about 20-30%. If I open all the way, the weirs start to drain and the tank fills.....Not a horrible thing, but then the tank has too much water in it and it is right up at the edge..........

    Plus, as the weirs drain, they make more noise..........

    This tells me that my intake flow is less than my outlet flow......and the pump is more powerful than I need :)

    So, I am running two parallel legs off my pump now, which are combined together back to one line and then split to dual returns.

    I have twin 1" intakes that T to a single inlet to the pump.

    I guess there is nothing I can do to the intakes, except redrill and make 2: ha ha

    I am thinking of running a third parallel leg that would handle the unused flow and either merge with the outlet of the other 2 legs, or route separately to the tank. This leg would have a gate valve to adjust this flow in coordination with the opening of the main valve....

    Thoughts?

    Thanks,
     
  2. inkslinger

    inkslinger Guru Class Expert

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  3. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Ink,

    It may help a little, but I would have to re-drill as the bulkhead is still only 1", so the constriction would negate any benefit I think from a larger size.
     
  4. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    The solution is painfully clear. You just need a larger tank for the larger pump :D
     
  5. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    All,

    Due to c02 and config issues, I am going to 3 parallel legs (have 2 now) this weekend....INSTEAD of a larger tank lol

    Reason is that I have the mazzei/bypass assembly AFTER an NC-547 bio canister.
    To get good c02 levels, this causes the PSI on the NC-547 to go higher than 18 and the o-ring seal leaks.

    Not always, has been intermittent, but just changed the 533 mech cartridge and even though all valves/psi readings were as before (I now change filters every 2 weeks, so no change in PSI, thanks J), I now get a leak at the 547 and must reduce mazzei flow, which causes poor c02.

    However, last filter change prior to this one (2 days now) DID NOT cause this condition..:confused:

    Since this occurs, no c02 mist, ph is 1.0 higher, ph does NOT change during day (meter calibrated), so I am going to act fast before things get bad. Ph was dropping 1 full point, good mist, prior to this filter swap.......

    So, here is my new configuration:

    Leg 1 - mechanical filtration with NC-533
    Leg 2 - biological filtration with NC-547
    Leg 3 - c02 with Mazzei 584 and bypass assembly. Any flow not directed to the venturi (controlled by gate valve in the bypass assembly) flows past and is merged with the mazzei output.

    This should allow me to fully utilize my pump/flow and get more pressure to the venturi/bypass by sending less to each NC. The c02 flow now has to go through the bio filter first and then to the mazzei. I never should have done this, but lessons learned right?

    All 3 legs will than merge back to one and then split to dual returns.

    True unions at each component, gate/ball valves PRIOR and AFTER each component for maintenance, flow adjustment, etc.

    Pretty much like now, but adding a third leg and adding a ball valve/psi guage here and there. I will now have the same NC PSI guages so I should get good steady readings all around.

    I still may upgrade again if/when the new blackfin pump arrives, but I think this config will give me good results.

    I am interested to see what the PSI will be on all legs with the valves fully open, although I will be sending only 5-7 PSI to the NC canisters. C02 will get all the rest, which should be increased from what it is now.....

    Which should result in better venturi/mist/c02 results :D

    Well, parts list is done, schematic is ready, plan is in my head, off to home depot/lowes Friday night, lay it all out on the floor to ensure I have all pieces (lol), and then either stay up late, or do Saturday....just like building a model car or plane..

    I think it will be Friday night if I have all the stuff I need. Then I have Sat, Sun, Mon to watch/fix issues/adjust.

    Well, thanks for listening and will keep you posted.
     
  6. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey,

    Just finished the new config, took about 6 hours with a tiny break for lunch, and seems like no leaks..........Maybe a seep at the NC547 so will monitor...........

    I had 2 leaks when I first fired it up, but both were unglued connections, so clean, glue, connect and no issues. Missing 2 out of the dozens of connections wasn't bad odds LOL

    PSI with system at rest (pump off), ALL valves open, system full of water, no air, etc sits at 1 maybe 2 PSI on guages at all 3 legs.

    Pump running with all open is 13 PSI.

    I have to almost completely close the ball valves PRIOR to the NC canisters to set the PSI I want, and the NC 547 does not go to 0 even if I close the valve????

    The 533 does go to 1 or 2 when completely closed.

    Jdowns,

    Did you notice anything like this?

    All seems to work fine, but of course my c02 tank is empty, the spare is at the shop, so no c02 till Tuesday..........

    That spa flex hose is the bomb!!! Cabinet is now full of plumbing but I can reach everthing fairly easily which was not the case before.

    Reminder to self when I get a 500 gallon: build a BIGGER cabinet than the dimensions of the tank. Go with more depth for more space......You'll neve see it at the back of the tank......

    keeping the fingers crossed....

    Later,
     
  7. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    My 533 will sit at 1-2 psi when the pump is off, I have to bleed the pressure out of the system for the psi to go to 0, so I think there is some pressure lock there. Not sure on the 547, I haven't installed the gauge there. I can do that and test. I do run my 547 backwards though. So output from 533 to output on 547. That way its a straight shot connection for both units with no bends. I put my Zeolite into a 5 gallon paint strainer bag to contain the media, so nothing gets into the discharge line, and for ease of maintenance.

    I have to agree, the spa flex is the way to go. A 45 here and there makes for very easy bends, and with unions and ball valves in proper placements, very easy to work on each leg.

    I'm getting ready to yank my mesh mod pump. A diffuser into the intake of the whole system gives me very nice mist, and that pump is nullified. So its just a matter of taking out a section of line and connecting one union to another. Which is the benefit of using unions, and having them all face the same direction. I use the config of male side in, and female side out.
     
  8. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    J,

    Thanks for the info. Comparison benchmarks are always useful. 9 days with no response from blackfin for a pump...sent a follow up just now.

    yes, unions are excellent, but I use the reverse config: male out, female in. Works either way but they are ALL the SAME way as well.

    BTW, did you use slip valves/unions? I ask as I think I should have used threaded unions and a threaded/slip adaptor to connect. As it is, I would have to buy a new
    union just for the male end, if I have to redo the flex tube as the flex goes right into the slip union.......

    Want to be able to disconnect everything, but was concerned about the greater amount of connections that can leak........

    I notice that my temp is at 83.5 after a day or so of the new config.

    That is 2-2.5 degrees less so maybe this resolved the higher heat issue...:)

    Must say that parallel has many advantages and few cons......

    No leaks and seems solid.

    fingers crossed on the heat issue........

    Later.
     
  9. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    I used threaded inserts at the distributor, and slip unions elsewhere. I keep some spare hose and 1" unions handy. So if there is a problem its only a matter of replacing a section. I was going to use threaded unions but that was more fail points. I'd rather replace a small section. But in all practicallity once its setup correctly there shouldn't need to be any modifications, the key is getting it setup correctly :p. I am glad I did things in sections though, so removing the mesh mod pump is not a major ordeal. Next water change I'll drain that section of line and disconnect the unions on both sides and remove the pump section, and reconnect without the pump.

    Nine days? I would call them tomorrow after the holidays. Once I paid I had mine in three days.
     
  10. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    J,

    Yes, I thought the same about the connections and fail points and is why I opted for the slip as well. We do seem to think alike in these things........

    I do not anticipate any replacements or other changes, and the sections that contain the components are all separate and can be closed off/replaced as needed anyway with either a different component or a section of hose if no longer needed...Or I could just shut the valve off and close the loop that way.

    Excellent way to control a leak at each leg/component. Another pro for the parallel approach. I really like the design, it works well for me.

    Just need to add the automatic c02 adjustment/water change/plant trimming/glass cleaning/fert mixing/feeding/gravel vac, and dosing system and I am all set lol

    Only thing I should have done is lengthened the venturi/union section. If I want to swap for an inline reactor, the reactor will only be the length of the mazzei which is only 8" or so :( I can easily swap to another mazzei model which is what I had originally designed for.........However, I did not want the unit to be too long, so I had to compromise....

    It would be short and very FAT lol Most likely not that efficient....Maybe I can do some sort of needle wheel pump/device in-line..........

    So I guess I did NOT plan correctly or optimally :) But the rest works very well and am pleased with the result........Nice to control each leg or component..... Ez maintenace with the ball valves fore and aft of each canister and the mazzei bypass.

    I did replace the bad lifeguard pentair guage with a NC guage. I have one now on each canister and the venturi, so same guage on each of the 3 legs AND they now all read the same :)

    Re Blackfin,

    I sent them no money, but I did tell them in my e-mail that I wanted to order one. I have not received a reply to THAT order request is all. It is not that I paid them and now they have gone. Not at all.

    I would like to get the 2500 and just plug and play with some 1" to 2" bushings to connect the current config....Since there are 1" unions connecting the pump to the intake and outlets, and there is a ball valve fore and aft :) It may swap out in 10 minutes if the pump is about the same size and config of the inlet/outlet locations.

    Then I can really do a nice comparison as I see how it works now......

    They feel it will use less watts, less heat xfer, and you think it will flow more, so I would like to try it.........

    Ink,

    I was thinking more about your idea to increase the intakes. Others have suggested the same....

    I could go to 1.5 or 2" inside the wiers and under the cabinet to the pump. The only restriction point would be the 1" bulkhead fitting and the short sections of pvc pipe on either side of it. Say about 5-6" max and it would only be 1" for these small sections. It still may flow a bit more water though as it would be at least 36" total inches of large diameter pipe and is worth a shot. I was thinking of using 45 degree elbows from the 1" pipe that connects to the bulkhead under the tank. That would angle the flow from each side and connect to each side of a T. The T single leg would then point/flow downward again and flow to the pump. I thought the angles would help gravity feed the water???? There would be no horizontal flow at all to the intakes, all downhill as they say lol

    It would be pretty easy to do, just need some pipe and some adaptor bushings. Hmmmmm, will sleep on it.

    Not like I haven't made changes to my system LOL.

    Later,

    Will post any updates.
     
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