Problem with Thread Algae

aquabillpers

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nipat;41260 said:
With enough CO2 (and enough nutrients) around, it seems plants can tolerate less light better.
CO2 requirements for Low Light Plants (pontederiifolia) - Mombu the Aquarium Forum

Yes, CO2 helps!

It would be interesting to see how by how much it helps, though. I'm thinking that if a certain plant at the bottom of a tank isn't prospering due to insufficient light, by how much would the CO2 have to be increased to help? Or, if the CO2 level is raised to, say, 10 PPM, by how much would the lighting have to be increased, if any?

My guess is that CO2's benefit in a low light environment is marginal, but if one's tank is close to having enough light, CO2 would tip the balance.

Bill
 

Steven

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Aug 5, 2009
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Thank you all...so while I increase my CO2 level now and at the same will lower my light down to 2 bulbs of 2x21watts, what else should I do to get rid of those nasty algae? Will the BGA go away by this method too? FYI, right now I'm also fighting ich/white spot disease on my cardinals by raising the temp to 30C due to my insufficient knowledge by not quarantine them after bought from LFS. What distressful situation I got right now :(.

Update : look like my daonoi (pogostemon hellferi) begin to not grow well being exposed to hot temp probably? All the leaves are arch downward.

Apparently this hardcore hobby is not as simple as I read from an article somewhere before I begin this :rolleyes:.

Cheers
 

Tom Barr

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aquabillpers;41270 said:
Yes, CO2 helps!

It would be interesting to see how by how much it helps, though. I'm thinking that if a certain plant at the bottom of a tank isn't prospering due to insufficient light, by how much would the CO2 have to be increased to help? Or, if the CO2 level is raised to, say, 10 PPM, by how much would the lighting have to be increased, if any?

My guess is that CO2's benefit in a low light environment is marginal, but if one's tank is close to having enough light, CO2 would tip the balance.

Bill

Read Tropica's account and test using Riccia, that will give some quantification.
Fairly detailed study and a good chart explaining the allocation of resources.

At low light, more light gather resources can be allocated to catching light rather than trying to also acquire low CO2. Plants can be lazy getting CO2 since there's plenty and plenty of nutrients, then can focus on light exclusively.

Same thing with more light and nutrients, and CO2 being limited.
Or higher light/CO2, and leaner nutrients.

Like plants adapting to low CO2, plants can adapt to lean issues with any of these three as long as the other two variables are somewhat non limiting.

Still, light makes the the most since, followed by low CO2, and finally, lean nutrients if you hads to pick and chose management/selection of species etc.

Nitpat and Steven, try the 3 day blackout, 2 days or light(or 3), then 3 days off, 3 days on, etc.

Do this a few cycles, do a water change the day you add the light back. Also, cover the tank so that zero % light is getting in, use black trash plastic bags etc.
Trim up the plants that tend to get infested(you'll note so get much worst than others) more.

The cycles will tend if you are making headway. Try a bit more CO2/less light when you turn the lights back on. After a week or two of no algae at lower light, try turning the light back up, but do a water change that day also, and make sure the CO2 is good.

Had both these algae about 2 months ago and there's none left.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

nipat

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Tom Barr;41303 said:
-snip-

Nitpat and Steven, try the 3 day blackout, 2 days or light(or 3), then 3 days off, 3 days on, etc.

Do this a few cycles, do a water change the day you add the light back. Also, cover the tank so that zero % light is getting in, use black trash plastic bags etc.
Trim up the plants that tend to get infested(you'll note so get much worst than others) more.

The cycles will tend if you are making headway. Try a bit more CO2/less light when you turn the lights back on. After a week or two of no algae at lower light, try turning the light back up, but do a water change that day also, and make sure the CO2 is good.

Had both these algae about 2 months ago and there's none left.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks Tom, actually I planned to do that since I'd seen you mentioned somewhere
about this black out method. But I chose to wait till my plants look healthier before
doing that. However, now, I don't know, it (the spirogyra) have been looking weaker
(it looks softer, can't ‘curl’ anymore) and dissappearing very fast. While plants are
looking better (3-4 weeks after getting pressurised CO2). What a good surprise.
If the algae bounces back, I will try the black-out.:)
 

Tom Barr

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Oh?
You just got pressurized CO2?

What do you know:)

That seems pretty likely to be CO2. I adjust it and it seems to cure most issues and at worst, the various species slow down growth, a few might nag me a bit, but the blackout kicks them good if so.

Once they gain a foothold, many can be tough to get rid of, but the 3 day blackout should do 0% harm to any of your plants, even if you think they are "weak".

Seriously, try it and see.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Steven

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So Tom, last question, should I turn off the CO2 also when I do the blackout for 3 days? What about fertz? Should I feed my fishes too? Thanks Tom. Wish me luck :).
 

Gerryd

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Hi,

I am not Tom, but NO c02 during the blackout. Continue dosing your macros/micros daily AFTER each water change.
 

Steven

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Sorry to ask again, but to remove all doubt inside me, may I? What about DURING 3 days blackout? I know after 3 days blackout, I have to WC at the 4th day when I will turn the light on and at the same time I also will dose macro and micro the next day, right?

Also what about feeding to fish during blackout? Thank you very much.
 

Gerryd

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Hi Steven,

I thought your question WAS about DURING the B/O.. If I mis-understood, I apologize,,,,,,,,

During the blackout, do a DAILY water change. Not just at the end.

blackout instructions:

1. TURN OFF C02.
2. TURN OFF lights.
3. 50-60% daily water change.
4. Dose your macros and micros AFTER step #3.
5. Repeat each day of the b/o. It can be MORE than 3 days, but 3-4 will usually work well.

You can feed the fish if you like, but some fish may not be able to see the food, and it may foul the water.
 

Steven

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I like to update the result on my algae after 3 days blackout...It WORKED, I am really satisfy with the result suggested by all of you, specially Tom. A simple and yet very effective way of solving alga problems. I say 90-98% EFFECTIVE with no drugs, chemical etc etc...This is done for 1 cycle only, about 95% of thread alga on HC and other plants have gone, about 100% of BGA above substrate have gone too and about 5% of BGA under the substrate still remain.

BGA under substrate before blackout
P9260518.jpg


BGA under substrate after blackout (same spot as above)
BGA.jpg


Ok, those all about the positive results, now the side effect or negative results are surprisingly about 65% of my Pogostemon helferi (Daonoi) were melted away (what's the explanation here?). All of the motherplant of daonoi were effected but leaving their runners alone alive. The picture will tell...
MeltingD.jpg


I was shocked the day I open the tank after the 3 days blackout and also about 5% of the HC were melted too and the other 5% of their leaves become yellowish. 2% of Bacopa monnieri were melted too. Somehow, the only uneffected plants are L. aromatica, Rotala green and rotundifolia, C. wendtii, H. micranthemoides and E. tenellus. But frankly speaking, before I did the blackout, I trimmed all the plants except HC, daonoi and C. wendtii.

Thank you very much.
 

Steven

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One more thing, the nitrate in my tank has reach to between 25-50ppm after the blackout and I have WC 50% and right now is the 5th day after blackout and the level still won't go down although I have stopped dose NO3, why? Thanks for any opinion in advance.

Now that I assume 95% of algae in my tank have gone, I would like to correct my previous mistakes and learn how to make the plants grow healthy and control the algae.

First, Im pushing my CO2 inject rate (my ph is 7.3-7.4 at the morning before the CO2 is turned on and after about 2 hours it is turned on, the pH is down to 5.8, so I think I've inject more than enough CO2 into the tank, pleaaassee don't tell me that my plants still CO2 limiting :)). Also about the the circulation/flow in the tank that according to me is good enough too.
Diffuse.jpg

and the very right side of the tank ( you can see the fine bubbles of CO2 circulating)
Diffuse1.jpg

And this is the way I diffuse the CO2 with the help of the outflow of canister filter
Diffuser.jpg


Second, I correct my dosing regime by 50% of WC weekly and dose Seachem NPK by 20ml and Flourish 5ml, Trace 8ml and Iron 2ml intervals alternating between 1st and 2nd day to target around N 17ppm, P 1.0ppm and Iron 0.1ppm.

Third, I have turn off my third bulb leaving only two bulbs with 2x21watt on 80x30x40cm tank size and for 9 hours a day. I still see the HC pearling exactly the same as when I use all the 3 bulbs but E.tenellus become green again that before was reddish, but I don't mind as long as the plants are healthy.

So, after all I conclude that my tank environment is enough light/PAR for all of my plants to photosynthesize, non nutrients limiting? and non CO2 limiting and they will doing great from now on and I will be able to control algae growth at bay, right? Any suggestions and advice are very welcome and thank you in advance.
 

Steven

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Trouble...just spotted that the hair algae start to strike back again :( what an endless tired battle.

I have :
  1. Reduced my lighting from 3x21watts to 2x21watts T5NO in 80x30x40 tank size with the duration of 9 hours per day with a break of 1 hour between 16.00 to 17.00.
  2. Increased my CO2 rate. At the morning before the CO2 is on, the pH is at 7.3-7.4 and 2-3 hours after the CO2 start, the pH is at 5.7-5.8, also the DC is in light green color (mixed by 4dkH water with reagent) made based on this.
  3. Add more fertz to target N 20ppm, P 0.1+ppm, K 20ppm and Fe 0.25ppm. The dosing regime is one day with Seachem NPK and the other day with Flourish, Trace and Iron. Weekly 50% WC and filter cleaning of once per 2 weeks.

Current water parameter:
NO3 = 25 ppm
PO4 = 1 ppm
Fe = 0.5 ppm

So far, I have calibrated my Sera test kits (NO3 and PO4) based on this and they turned out to be quite accurate. What is wrong here? Do I miss something? Please help folks. Thank you.
 

nipat

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Is this your first time black-out?
If so, you can do it again. Tom said it might need 2-3 cycles of black-out for
some hardy algae (such as Spirogyra).
 

Philosophos

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You could always try upping the PO4 a little.

More importantly though, I notice that your algae problems focus on the side of your tank farthest from the CO2. Perhaps more than one diffuser would be of some help, or a reactor or needle wheel. Anything to raise concentrations on the right hand side.

-Philosophos
 

Steven

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nipat;42114 said:
Is this your first time black-out?
If so, you can do it again. Tom said it might need 2-3 cycles of black-out for
some hardy algae (such as Spirogyra).
Yes, it was my first time and I think I'll wait a little while before the second blackout cause the first one cost the life of my dawnoi :(. Thanks

Philosophos;42116 said:
You could always try upping the PO4 a little.

More importantly though, I notice that your algae problems focus on the side of your tank farthest from the CO2. Perhaps more than one diffuser would be of some help, or a reactor or needle wheel. Anything to raise concentrations on the right hand side.

-Philosophos
Actually they grow on the left side too near the rocks and CO2, anyway I have re-position the inflow and outflow of my filter to see if the right side of the tank will get enough CO2 flow. That's also explain why my daonoi didn't grow well before at the very right side of the tank. Thanks.

Besides of those above, I still have another weird problem. My Bacopa monnieri seem to rot at its lower stem by only one segment between leave internode although the upper part still continue to grow until the lower part become too weak then it falls apart. Today, my L. aromatica also happen the same way unless it's the whole stem. What is seems to be cause? Just anyone has ever experience the same with me and like to share? Thank you all around.