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Poor man ADa substrate

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by Tom Barr, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I am considering making available to Barr Report subscribers poor Man's ADA aqua soil. It is about the same size and texture as ADA's aqua soil.

    I also am looking at some powersand like products locally in the USA.

    This stuff will be much cheaper than Flourite/Onyx and certainly far less than ADA products.

    What I plan on doing in the next 2 months is gauge the ADA vs the Tom's Secret Substrate Sauce(Tom's SSS, ahaha!).
    .........But I'll tell you everything of what is in it.

    It'll be coming up shortly.

    I've made ferts pretty cheap, test kits uneeded, tap more useful(folkks have always said they must use soft water in the past), now to return to making the substrate cheap once again(I did the heating cable proponents in) but went to SeaChem for awhile for the substrate and some ferts.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Perhaps Greg might be interested in selling it also.
    There are several grades and sizes and several nutrient mixes available so you can customize the product.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. reiverix

    reiverix Lifetime Members
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    You have no idea how perfectly timed this is for me. Seriously. I'm super excited. :eek: I've been looking into ADA stuff lately and was going to ask you some questions about their substrates. Availability of info and lack of competition have been two frustrating aspects I've run into.

    I should be getting a few new tanks soon unless the guy is a total rip off and will be needing dirt. :D

    As far as the nutrient mixes go, umm...I'll have what you're having.
     
  4. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Well I wasn't looking at ADA products for 2 reasons.......cost and availability ;but I am setting up a 75 gallon tank and so far the biggest obsticle will be substrate. I didn't want pool sand because I want a darker substrate. This will end up costing more than my lights or tank itself! I will be watching this thread with more enthusiasm in the next month.
     
  5. Cornhusker

    Cornhusker Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    :) tom, you are going to make a big hit with the planted tank folks with your substrate idea. when you factor in cost of shipping these good substrates are a very big factor in setting up a successful tank. you don't build a nice house on an inferior foundation. regards,cornhusker :) :)
     
  6. wob

    wob Junior Poster

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    I am ALL for this, go Tom! :)

    Currently I'm going with the tried and true method of a dusting of peat moss on the bottom, First Layer Laterite, then top it all off with course sand. I'll actaully be putting this together this weekend hopefully!

    Robert
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Well, this is the real deal here, it's not some BS or something.
    The color is similar, dark black/brown.

    I'm contacting the ag sales rep tomorrow hopefully.
    Interesting stuff.

    It has some with higher NH4 and some with low NH4.
    When added to water, the NH4 is going to be broken down into NO3 over time and using activatred carbon and zeolite will remove it from the water column.

    I think I will make this offer to folks only on this site.
    So if I can save folks 200$ on substrates, then the cost for the 12.95 a year will not make it a bad deal:)

    And make the value worth much more.

    Greg and I are also going to do some other promotional items.
    I have OHKO rocks that Amano uses as well as some neat Basalt rock he also likes, lots of branchy wood etc than can be sold only to lifetime members.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. weaverr3

    weaverr3 Junior Poster

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Ok, where have I been... there is a lifetime membership? How'd I miss that? How much is it?
     
  9. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    If you need a "test subject tank" I would be willing to give your substrate a try at no additional cost to you! :D
     
  10. matpat

    matpat Prolific Poster

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Ditto Damon's response :D This may be just the push I need to get rid of my 55g tanks and go with another 75g tank!

    Lifetime membership???
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Greg and I are discussing it(lifetime membership + benefits).
    OHKO Rocks, CO2 reactors would be made available for these members.

    The Substrate will be for any subscriber for the list.

    This will make the relative cost for a year or two or the lifetime membership worth the cost with one 50 gal tank using the substrate.

    So I do not plan on selling this product to anyone other than subscribers.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. AV8TOR

    AV8TOR Junior Poster

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    An article or suggested methods of changing substrate in a mature tank would be appreciated too. Sounds radical
     
  13. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Excellent idea ...

    Greg
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Simple, vacuum the old substrate good.
    Rermove all the weeds, trim and preen well, set aside underwater in a bucket etc.

    Skim off the top 1" with a siphon hose, and vacuum only the deepest parts.
    This removes any bits of substrate that might have algae. Decant off the clear water after 5 minutes of settling in the bucket, save the mulm on the bottom.

    Add a dusting of ground peat or.....Leonardite.
    Add the mulm, Add Super Thrive(2 ml per sq ft) add the substrate on top.

    Plant as densely as you can.

    Done.

    Thios does basically what ADA does except goes 10x better and cost next to nothing. EAC :It has to be hormones or copper (and we can test for copper) since you add so little and the effects look like one of these, Tourmaline(iron base), Bacter(dried mulm) etc.

    EAC:
    Now if you add either copper as blue stone in small amounts, easy enough, Super Thrive is nothing but hormones/vitamins, you can also buy rooting hormones.

    Torumaline: latertite, other iron forms.
    Bacter: get reeeeeal, how can anything beat live mulm?

    There you go, 10x as cheap and just as good.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  15. detlef

    detlef Subscriber

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Sorry Tom,

    what is EAC??????????

    Regards,
    Detlef
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Snake oil:)

    I've seen it used and the best responses I've heard: adds a slight sheen to Gloss.

    So if you add a 2-3 drops once a week to a 20 gal tank, it, whatever it is, cannot be that concentrated to be PO4 etc, it has to be either a trace or a hormone.

    There are only a few things that will help plants grow better, agriculture is light years ahead and far better funded than anything in the aquatic plasnt horticultural field.............

    This is also true for aquatic weed herbicides, many come from rice weed control products..........

    ADA, Tropica etc, these folks are not using some novel approach, researched and tested in some lab, they borrow from other terrestrial ag sciences.......

    You can buy a bottle of Super Trhive at most any plant nursery and add it to your veggies and get bigger harvest etc, or use root hormone etc on cuttings.

    I can put ST in a bottle and say some BS and have folks add it. A few will be converts. Many would buy it to get that edge they feel they need.

    The edge is truthfully plain old fashioned work.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  17. marktnguyen

    marktnguyen Junior Poster

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Sorry.. I haven't been active in a while. I'm interested in this. Is this dead?
     
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    Well sort of.

    ADA's product is cheaper than Flourite/EC/Onyx sand for the most part per floor space in a tank.

    I could have something made, but it'd be about this unless I have 20-50 tons made, then it would be much cheaper.

    I do not want to go this large:)

    So.......I'm send on line folks to Jeff's here in the USA, there are vendors in SG, UK, Germany etc that sell ADA, but might not msome clay we have here, nor am I interested in shipping all over nor have the time to handle the product volume.

    The Soil Master charcoal in pretty close, but for $ and effort, it's easier to go with the ADA aqua soil. Runs a tad less than the Flourite.

    If some LFS in your area is interested, I will see about getting the product into their store. But I will send everyone to the other places outside the USA, besides Aqua Forest and ADG or mail order to ADG.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  19. sherry

    sherry Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Poor man ADa substrate

    I'm too new to know which site is Jeffs..


    also is it worth adding any ada aquasoil as a layer to eco complete without changing it all out?
     
  20. Bill

    Bill Lifetime Charter Member
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