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Plumbing and co2 change

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Gerryd, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    I think I am going to change things a bit on my 220.

    I current have a mag 18 with a 3/4 outlet. This feeds via a bushing to a 2" wye. The twin outlets use a 1" bushing and then to a 3/4 outlet and flex tube to each end of the tank.

    The c02 is fed via a rio 1k with a DIY NW via 5/8 tubing to a large cerges 4/20. The outlet is fed back to the sump and distributed via the main flow described above.

    I think I am going to switch to TWO smaller more powerful pumps, one for each side of the tank. I also want to get a proper/true NW pump a bit larger for the c02. I want to use either 3/4 or 1" to/from the cerges for more flow in and out of it. I think 2 of the Sicce syncra 5.0 (1340 gph) with adjustment will be perfect.

    I have the 4.0 models on my smaller tanks and I like them a lot.

    This will provide some backup in case of a single pump failure and provide more/better flow to each end of the tank. The increase to 1" all over will also provide some improvement.

    The one outlet is only 3' from the sump, so this is where the cerges will go. The other outlet is almost 9-10' long, so this will dissolve a bit of c02 as well. I don't think mist will really be an issue.

    I think/hope that a true NW pump will do a better job of dissolving the high rate of c02 I inject and perform a bit better overall.

    Off to the lfs to see what they have...will be 12-14 miles by bicycle round trip. Than bball later with the young fellas at the park..

    Later!
     
  2. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Very interesting Gerry, please keep us posted. I am really curious to see how your cerges is going to reduce the mist from the NW pump. I am currently using the am1000 reactor going back into the sump because the NW pump Rio 600 I tried previously, gave me too much mist in the tank, but still with the am1000 I get too much of that, I guess, and I'd like to reduce that furthermore if possible.

    Would be interesting, once this new setup of yours is deployed, to measure the following:

    1. PH drop value
    2. PH drop time
    3. Degassing time
    4. Mist visibility (the lower the better!)

    A good HD video would be really convenient to see the amount of mist back into the tank once this project is completed... You could actually take a video now to compare later.

    Keep us posted!
     
  3. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi Fab,

    Please note the cerges does a great job with mist. If I disconnect it, the mist in tank is very/easily visible. Using the cerges, can't notice it.

    I have one on the smaller tanks as well using a smaller unit and they work great.

    No HD video but I do need to take current measurements for later comparison. I think these changes may make a big difference and cause an adjustment period.

    Will advise as things develop.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Fab,

    Please note the cerges does a great job with mist. If I disconnect it, the mist in tank is very/easily visible. Using the cerges, can't notice it.

    I have one on the smaller tanks as well using a smaller unit and they work great.

    No HD video but I do need to take current measurements for later comparison. I think these changes may make a big difference and cause an adjustment period.

    Will advise as things develop.
     
  4. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    Slight change: I am going to install another cerges unit so that I have one on each outlet. This way the nw can simply discharge into the sump and be distributed from there and hit both cerges units.

    The one large 4x20 does a good job, but is fed directly from the nw pump so gets all the mist. Another unit can be used as a simple carbon block filter if not needed for demisting....

    I also fixed the seepage on the cerges unit for my 75gal. The o-ring was not seated properly...

    All good now...These units help tremendously to eliminate the c02 mist in tank...The 75 has a low bubble rate so mist is not that visible but you can see it discharge from the outlet. I bet I don't see it anymore.. I never see any on the 57 or really the 220.
     
    #4 Gerryd, Feb 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2014
  5. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Wow, that's great to know Gerry! I would like to get rid of the mist in the tank as well, and looks like that may be a brilliant solution. I have a question though: I am currently using the am1000 instead of a NW pump, because it gives me less mist than a NW, but I don't understand why I am getting a lot of mist anyway... Shouldn't the am1000 work pretty much like a cerges?

    In any case, if I connect the output from the am1000 to a cerges before getting back into the sump, will that reduce the mist furthermore?

    Thanks!
     
  6. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi Fab,

    It is not MY brilliant solution :) the cerges was not my creation so no credit for it lol

    Yes, but the am1000 has smaller ports as you know where my cerges are 1" ports. So lots more flow can go in them.

    Plus, the size of even my smaller ones is 3-4 times the volume of an am1000 if not more.

    Yes, the cerges should further reduce the mist and is why I use it. Even if the input to the cerges if from a reactor...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Fab,

    It is not MY brilliant solution :) the cerges was not my creation so no credit for it lol

    Yes, but the am1000 has smaller ports as you know where my cerges are 1" ports. So lots more flow can go in them.

    Plus, the size of even my smaller ones is 3-4 times the volume of an am1000 if not more.

    Yes, the cerges should further reduce the mist and is why I use it. Even if the input to the cerges if from a reactor...
     
  7. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    Well I am going to do this in stages..

    1. Tonight I will install the new twin pumps and the upsize from 3/4 to 1" tubing and outlets. This way I can guage the new flow w/o other changes. I will take vids before and after for comparison.

    2. I will 'build' another cerges unit and need to get some 1" barbed/threaded fittings for it. I can easily install these inline by simply cutting the 1" flex tube and connecting both cut ends to the cerges units.

    3. I am researching NW pumps now, but I can do 1 and 2 and see if that improves things any w/o purchasing the new pump.

    So, will grab a bite to eat and get started. I have all I need and should go quickly. But will take the chance the clean the sump a bit while I am in there.

    Will do a water change as well during the swap as it will take a good 45-60 mins anyway.

    Later!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey all,

    Well I am going to do this in stages..

    1. Tonight I will install the new twin pumps and the upsize from 3/4 to 1" tubing and outlets. This way I can guage the new flow w/o other changes. I will take vids before and after for comparison.

    2. I will 'build' another cerges unit and need to get some 1" barbed/threaded fittings for it. I can easily install these inline by simply cutting the 1" flex tube and connecting both cut ends to the cerges units.

    3. I am researching NW pumps now, but I can do 1 and 2 and see if that improves things any w/o purchasing the new pump.

    So, will grab a bite to eat and get started. I have all I need and should go quickly. But will take the chance the clean the sump a bit while I am in there.

    Will do a water change as well during the swap as it will take a good 45-60 mins anyway.

    Later!
     
  8. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Thanks for highlighting the cerges features, I didn't notice the difference in the intake (!!) I will follow your documentation here below and possibly I will "emulate" your setup later on :)

    Looking forward to follow you on this project.

    Thank you Gerry!
     
  9. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    Well, stage 1 is complete....

    I am opening the flow adjustment on both pumps just a tiny bit. The flow is stronger for sure than before. I can tell by the plant movement, the sump flow, and the overflow itself is almost overwhelmed :) I have opened the full siphon valve fully whereas this was closed previously to increase the water level in the overflow itself.

    So, I cannot add more flow as is unless I get a bigger overflow which is not what I want to do. I have a larger lifereef if I want to use it..

    But, the inline cerges may take a bit of flow away so have plenty of adjustment left.

    Big difference in the flow all over the tank. I think the 1" tubing helps a lot along with a separate pump for each outlet.

    Seems very quiet and all seems fine.

    I will keep an eye on the overflow and will turn power on/off a few times to ensure all is well with the siphons draining.

    Okay, now off to find perhaps a better/larger NW pump for c02. I want one that can be submerged. Am thinking of the danner mag drive 9.5 with fractioning impeller like Udgags uses..

    I had the cerges disconnect when I first started it up, but c02 was on. The mist was tremendous and very visible, so the cerges does a great job.

    I may be able to remove the vortech mp40 which would be a nice thing...
    Later!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey all,

    Well, stage 1 is complete....

    I am opening the flow adjustment on both pumps just a tiny bit. The flow is stronger for sure than before. I can tell by the plant movement, the sump flow, and the overflow itself is almost overwhelmed :) I have opened the full siphon valve fully whereas this was closed previously to increase the water level in the overflow itself.

    So, I cannot add more flow as is unless I get a bigger overflow which is not what I want to do. I have a larger lifereef if I want to use it..

    But, the inline cerges may take a bit of flow away so have plenty of adjustment left.

    Big difference in the flow all over the tank. I think the 1" tubing helps a lot along with a separate pump for each outlet.

    Seems very quiet and all seems fine.

    I will keep an eye on the overflow and will turn power on/off a few times to ensure all is well with the siphons draining.

    Okay, now off to find perhaps a better/larger NW pump for c02. I want one that can be submerged. Am thinking of the danner mag drive 9.5 with fractioning impeller like Udgags uses..

    I had the cerges disconnect when I first started it up, but c02 was on. The mist was tremendous and very visible, so the cerges does a great job.

    I may be able to remove the vortech mp40 which would be a nice thing...
    Later!
     
  10. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    So......all seems fine so far with the new setup, a few hours into it :)

    I did in fact remove the MP40 as it was on low anyway, and I could no longer discern a difference when it was on or off with the new pumps...

    I have also increase PAR from 15-30 mmoles and have reverted back to my previous c02 rate over the last 2 weeks. I now have a spare 20lb c02 tank as well so these last longer fer sure.

    I rinsed the sponges as well as the mesh bags filled with the old eheim media. Was all dirty and is now nice and clean. I added some 100 micron pad to the sump underneath the normal coarser foam. I will replace tomorrow and do it for a few days to really polish the water.

    I think the filtration will be even better with high turnover rate.

    It looks good so will be observing closely..

    Take care!

    - - - Updated - - -

    So......all seems fine so far with the new setup, a few hours into it :)

    I did in fact remove the MP40 as it was on low anyway, and I could no longer discern a difference when it was on or off with the new pumps...

    I have also increase PAR from 15-30 mmoles and have reverted back to my previous c02 rate. I now have a spare 20lb c02 tank as well so these last longer fer sure.

    I rinsed the sponges as well as the mesh bags filled with the old eheim media. Was all dirty and is now nice and clean. I added some 100 micron pad to the sump underneath the normal coarser foam. I will replace tomorrow and do it for a few days to really polish the water.

    It looks good so will be observing closely..

    Take care!
     
    #10 Gerryd, Feb 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2014
  11. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Wonderful, I am glad to see it is coming along very nicely!

    Would be great to have a video of all the setup working.

    Thank you for the step-by-step update, great job!
     
  12. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi all,

    Tomorrow will make 3 full weeks since the change to the twin pumps and I wanted to provide an update.

    1. I oversized the pumps for sure :) Both have the adjustment knob completely closed.
    2. The overflow is rated for 1200-1500 gph (iirc) and the pumps almost overwhelm it as is.
    3. The sump drains faster than it should and the tank level is now higher.
    4. #3 now causes more water to drain into the sump and can more easily overflow into the large container I have it sitting in. So, I have to keep the water level in the sump fairly low now. Will for sure have to finally install the auto top off lol
    5. Flow in tank is better for sure. I removed the mp40 and have seen no issues w/o it in use.

    I adjusted the herbie valve a tiny bit but is pretty quiet with the additional flow.

    You can see the sump inflow and overflow/flow as greater than before.

    I do have a larger u tube overflow and one weekend I may hook it up just to see. I had it on the tank originally, but then swapped to canister, and then reverted to wet/dry but also swapped to the cpr model.

    So, I am glad I made the switch and is working out well.

    Thanks for listening.

    Next stage: c02 and twin cerges....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi all,

    Tomorrow will make 3 full weeks since the change to the twin pumps and I wanted to provide an update.

    1. I oversized the pumps for sure :) Both have the adjustment knob completely closed.
    2. The overflow is rated for 1200-1500 gph (iirc) and the pumps almost overwhelm it as is.
    3. The sump drains faster than it should and the tank level is now higher.
    4. #3 now causes more water to drain into the sump and can more easily overflow into the large container I have it sitting in. So, I have to keep the water level in the sump fairly low now. Will for sure have to finally install the auto top off lol
    5. Flow in tank is better for sure. I removed the mp40 and have seen no issues w/o it in use.

    I adjusted the herbie valve a tiny bit but is pretty quiet with the additional flow.

    You can see the sump inflow and overflow/flow as greater than before.

    I do have a larger u tube overflow and one weekend I may hook it up just to see. I had it on the tank originally, but then swapped to canister, and then reverted to wet/dry but also swapped to the cpr model.

    So, I am glad I made the switch and is working out well.

    Thanks for listening.

    Next stage: c02 and twin cerges....
     
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