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Plants not growing, nor dying (most)

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by nicklfire, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    HEy All ,

    first off here are my specs

    75 gallon aquarium
    54x4 t5 bulbs 6700k (fishneedit)
    pressurized co2 system, reactor
    closed loop system for co2 reactor on right side, closed loop for filter on left side
    flourite
    dosing pfertz as recommended

    I'm having a problem with my plants for some reason they are not growing.... but they are not dying. I have been
    doing this for a while and i have never experienced this problem.

    I thought it might be a circulation problem so i added a powerhead and it didnt really seem to make a difference
    in the growth.

    The other thing i'm thinking is that because my rena xp3 is not at least 24" below the water level (because)
    it's closed loop it's letting in ALOT of tiny air bubbled into the tank, so not sure if that's offsetting the
    co2 ? Yet my drop checker is reading a good green indicating around 30ppm

    But even the easiest plants like rotala are not growing.. nor dying. the only thing that seems to be doing well
    is riccia and java moss.. All my other stem plants are not growing, and my HC all died off.

    Any help appreciated.


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    #1 nicklfire, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2011
  2. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    A few quick note at lunch..

    1) I think you have WAY too much light. I would remove 2 of those 4 tubes and run for no more than 8 hrs daily.
    2) I am not familiar with pfertz but they may be limiting in one or more..commercial ferts are sometimes water down a lot..
    3) A drop checker merely denotes what the c02 MAY have been in that ONE SPOT as many as 90-120 minutes in the past. Green does not ensure adequate c02.

    I think you are driving the plants with high light and the demand for c02 and macros/micros are not being met.

    Lowering your light and doing nothing else may make a big improvement over the next 2-3 weeks. Give it a try....

    I like the wood shape on the right. Very nice..
     
  3. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    Hey Gerry!

    Appreciate the reply and advice, i suppose it's something to try. Personally i am not sure what the problem is so i'm willing to try anything, but i have had other setups similar lighting setups and they did not experience these problems.

    I have a strong feeling that the renaxp3 that i have on the closed loop system which is produing the mass amount of micro air bubbles might be bringing the o2 levels too high.. but that alone would be a 200$ (chance) because i'd have to replace with a eheim or something that does not need a min 24" clearance from water level.. because right now i only have about 10".

    Those pictures were taken about a month ago so alot of the plants have widdled away, maybe i'll update the pictures to show the type of growth since that point. I DID try to do a clipping, but after the clipping nothing is growing, just stays clipped... very odd.
     
  4. fjf888

    fjf888 Guru Class Expert

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    High O2 levels are fine. Just because you have high O2 does not mean you have low CO2. I completely agree with Gerry, the first problem is WAY too much light. The T5 HO with 4 bulbs is the equivalent of have 6-8W per gallon over your tank. With that much light you basically have to OVERDOSE all ferts to meet the needs of the plants. Read the EI light thread on here for a good summary of what to dose.

    You probably will also have a tough time injecting enough CO2 to meet the demand with that high of light.

    I buy all my ferts here.....
    http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/
    great service very cheap, lasts a long time. No reason to buy the stuff in a bottle.

    Cut the light first, keep feeding the plants. If there isn't noticable improvement then CO2 is most likely the issue. Getting CO2 correct is the hardest part, but its easy to reduce the light
    .
     
  5. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    ok that makes a little more sense to me.

    Guess i didnt really take into the consideration the t5 lighting..
    Here is the fixture i have : http://www.fishneedit.com/4ft4bulbs-with-l44.html

    I'll start with cutting half the lights off, and continue the same dosing as i have been doing, i'll upload a before pic and in 2 weeks reupload and figure out if it has helped.

    Shawn
     
  6. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    I think i might switch back to the EI way as my pfertz is almost gone, i took a look and tried to refresh myself on the EI and i found this :


    60 – 80 Gallon Aquariums
    +/- 3/4 tsp KN03 3x a week
    +/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
    +/- 1 tsp once a week (water change only)
     
    #6 nicklfire, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2011
  7. rw007

    rw007 Junior Poster

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    Probably gh booster
     
  8. fjf888

    fjf888 Guru Class Expert

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    That's the GH Booster. It's also available on the aquariumfertilizer.com. I think you can dose Seachem Equilibrium as an equivalent. I just dry dose into my sump. There are several articles here that explain how to mix the solutions, look in the EI Section. It might make sense if you do that to invest in an accurate digital scale to mix solutions. To me its just easier to take a cup of water out of the sump take out my measuring spoon mix and dump back, one less thing to break down, easy for my simple mind to comprehend. If i'm in an extra hurry for whatever reason dump the dry dose teaspoon amount directly into the sump.
     
  9. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    sounds good, i'll read into it more and probably start dosing like that.

    one thing that's not an included ingredient that i USED to add when i did EI was K2SO4 but i dont see it on that ingredient list of stuff you should add, was it removed from the EI dosing?
     
  10. Ekrindul

    Ekrindul Guru Class Expert

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    Regarding the microbubbles you are getting from your Rena: I have something you can try to stop the bubbles. I have an XP4 on a 55 gallon tank, and I get lots of air trapped in the filter after I refill it, probably due to not being far enough below the tank, as you said. You can bleed the air off, though.

    After the filter fills as much as it can on its own, let it run for a few minutes. Then unplug it and lift one of the latches on the lid, presh down gently on the lid and the quick release handle until you don't hear anymore air leaking out or water starts leaking out. Relatch the lid and let the filter run again for a few minutes. Repeat a few times if the bubbles continue.

    If the problem continues still, repeat the process again, but leave the filter running this time. Have a towel ready and latch the lid as soon as water starts to leak out. May want to put a few towels around the base of the filter just in case you aren't able to get a latch on quick enough.

    Eventually, you should reach a point where the bubbles are gone or greatly minimized at which point they will run their course in a few hours.
     
  11. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    Just a little update!

    After 2 days of not having the lights on i have noticed a good 80% reduction in those microbubbles i was talking about.

    I believe i am also starting to see some plant growth i had not previously.. i maybe "seeing" things but in a week i will know for sure...

    Gerry! my man! lol... i suppose i might have overlooked the lighting situation like you said.. i had my doubts but... we will see, seems like we are on the right path. I incrased co2 just a tad as well.
     
  12. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi nicklfire,

    The reasoning here is that sufficient K is dosed via the KN03....

    Please adjust c02 slowly and over several days. Do not adjust and leave for the day. Wait several days between changes....Watch your fish for signs of stress and don't be afraid to add some surface agitation as c02 is increased. At most you will waste some c02, but so what if fish are safer??

    Give the tank another 5-10 days. Do some extra 50% water changes and dose EI right after....as a matter of fact I want you to increase your EI dosage by 50%...this will help to ensure no deficiencies and provide a buffer as the bio-mass grows. Many times we forget to increase c02 and fert dosing as plants grow. Remember this over the next 2-3 months as they take off

    Do you mean just using 2 bulbs or no lights at all???

    Be patient. Plants need time to respond to changing conditions.....watch the NEW growth when it starts....that is the truer guage of tank conditions....go EI, do some extra water changes, get your c02 adjusted, and go from there...
     
    #12 Gerryd, Feb 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2011
  13. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    Just wanted to update the thread.

    I have been doing the 50% increased Dosing.

    I have done an additional water change during the week.

    My microbubbles have reduced 80%

    Green algae on the glass has dramatically reduced

    I have not YET seen any significant growth but i'll give it another week.

    I have not touched the co2 since i last said, so i might turn it up another little notch.
     
  14. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    hi,

    Sounds good...

    Are you seeing any new growth at all? Or just not 'significant' whatever that means to you :)?

    Are some plants sprouting but others aren't?

    Do the fish and critters seem okay with the c02 levels?

    Patience is really your best bet right now with the changes you have made. Plants really do need time to adjust to even IMPROVED conditions. That is just a fact.

    Just watch the fish as you adjust c02 upwards, and do so slowly, 1 bps at a time...Keep an eye out afterwards as some ill effects may not be immediate and will show only after several days...

    I think it will be worth the wait.
     
    #14 Gerryd, Feb 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2011
  15. ubr0ke

    ubr0ke Prolific Poster

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    nicklfire....nice to see someone else from alberta on here...
    there is no place more helpful then this forum.
     
  16. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    Hey Gerry!

    Seeing Very little growth... but better then it was of course. There are some plants that are not growing at all, not sure if they were just too gone already.

    some plants sprouting some not correct.

    Fish seem ok with co2 yes, no breathing at surface and the dropchecker... lime greenish.

    Here are some pictures i JUST took so we can compare, sorry for the bad photography.

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  17. nicklfire

    nicklfire Subscriber

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    Juts to give a little update, those plants did not end up recovering. Alot of them just stopped growing all together and started turning brown..

    I ended up doing a HUGE prune to see if that would help develop new shoots.. but with no luck.. the tank looks pretty barish right now.

    I ordered all the necessary EI fertz that i needed and just waiting for them to be shipped to me. I have been using pfertz up to this point but will switch asap.

    As soon as i get the fertz, i will get some new fresh healthy stem plants in there and redo this experiment to see if growth rate improves.

    Just wanted to update

    When i get home tonight i'll to take a updated picture, just so i can keep a journal on this
     
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