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Plant problems. I tried but still can't figured out. need help

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Nam Nguyen, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. Nam Nguyen

    Nam Nguyen Junior Poster

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    I have tried to do some research but i still have not found the answer needed. First i will go in the detail spec of my tank.
    - 55 gallon standard with 2 sunsun canister filter and one has built in uv light + a sunsun circulation 570 g/h. Inline heater, 79F.
    - Fish : 7 young rainbow, 2 GBR, 2 Gold rams, 5 Tetra, 3 nitrate snails and 3 oto
    - Co2 with diy rex grigg reactor. Tested the water with API drop kit today and have the following: + PH either 6.2 or 6.4
    + KH : green with 4 drops, yellow with 5
    + GH : 6 drops gets yellow.
    - Lighting : Quad Zoomed Aquasun. Blubs are Zoomed Florasun+ Ultrasun, Coralife 6700+ Colormax. Light sits 3 inch from water, about 20 inch to substrate.
    - Substrate is dirted MOGC with Blasting sand capped plus DIY O+ root tabs.
    - Dosing : - EI method premix 500ml solutions. I boiled tap water then lets it cool to warm, felt by hand. Then i add the following :
    + Bottle one: 12 tsp x KNO3, 3 tsp x KH2PO4, 4tsp x K2SO4
    + Bottle two : 6 tsp x CSM + B, 2 tsp x FE Chelate 10%
    - I do weekly maintenance as 50-70% water change and clean both canister filters every two weeks. After the tank is filled again, i dose excel follow the instruction as an initial dose. I also dose half instruction of API algae fix.

    And here is my story and my question:
    - I used to have very nice carpet of glosso back to the day i used diy co2 with finnex ray 2. But then it started melting and float up afterward. I upgraded to pressurize system but couldnt help coming back so i rescaped the whole tank. I then had nice carpet forming again but not for long as i had an attack with all type of algaes ( includes those exist in new set up) but i expected that as a new tank subtrate. I used "one two punch" and killed them all, actually 3 bunches. I now have took the carpet up, removed dead stuffs then replant the glossostigma and i also have a new t5ho which is listed above at this time. I doubt that this light is enough to make them spread.
    - Now to the ludwigia, i used to have a bunch of them, all died off but i blamed the diy co2 and finnex ray 2. But then after upgraded everything, they still died off from me. Here is what i have left from a bunch. I would have removed them but they still show new leaves coming, that i hate the most.
    [​IMG]


    - Next is my starougyne repen 049. Got them bounced back after the shipment but now they are melting off one by one. Pictures below show them and also those algae that i believe are diatoms are coming back too.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    My question is : Can someone please address what problems i am having and what i should fix please.

    P/S note that, not everything in my tank is dying off. In my journal " the Chaos garden" others are healthy and weedy growing.

    Thank you very much in advance.
     
  2. BenFishin

    BenFishin Lifetime Members
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    I'm guessing with the heavy growth you are in need of increased co2. You got rid of DIY co2, good, now you have pressurized but you have yet to get it dialed in correctly is my guess. This could also be a reaction to a period of time where there was complete deprivation of co2 during the switch and should recover if your co2 is where it needs to be now.

    Maybe they were grown emerged and you are just experiencing the switching over of the starougyne repen. Algea feeds on those dying leaves so get them out as soon as they show signs of death.

    Your kh and ph show you have enough co2, but my tank shows I have 150+ppm co2 based on kh/ph/co2 chart. Best way I have figured out to use ph to determine good co2, is just finding when I have good co2 based on fish and plants and then testing ph. Now I know where to get my ph in the future if something happens and I have to start over. Usually when I change co2 out or bump my regulator etc.

    If you are completely new to the pressurized co2 then reading up on the threads and stickies on this site are a must. Get your co2 dialed in correctly and pay close attention to your flow of co2 "mist". Be sure it is flowing to all areas of the tank and not being absorbed by your larger plants and not to the lower and smaller plants.

    Once you get that where you think it is good, leave it for a few days and take note of growth. No growth, more algea, up your co2 a "little" more. Fish start to stress, you have two options. Slightly decrease co2 or slightly increase surface agitation. I prefer the latter, as I know that my co2 is as high as I want it and now I can just play around with the surface and the current in the tank.

    Now we found our temporary sweet spot and we leave it there for a few days and take note of plants. Good growth, less algea, fish not stressed, leave everything alone. Now if you need to change anything I would make small, single adjustments. Ie. one small adjustment to co2. Or one small adjustment to flow. This can be the same with light or dosing if they are suspected, but make one small adjustment at a time. This way you are watching the results of your adjustment. This vs. adjusting everything and not actually knowing what changes affected your

    I dose EI to my tank but I go the every other day dry dosing so I am not sure how to direct you on your dosing. I keep my ratios between the ferts the same and only test my nitrates. If my nitrates are low I adjust everything up in proportion to how much I raise my nitrates.

    You don't state your dosing rates so if someone else chimes in about dosing you might want to have that information ready. I won't get into that though. It seems you are dosing the right things so I assume you are short in the co2 dept.

    In my experience when I know everything else is right, (ferts, co2, light) and I still have poor growth somewhere, then it is the flow in the tank that is off. Clogged filter, mis directed spray bar, or heavy plant growth stopping current.

    I know I kinda threw a bunch out there, I haven't had breakfast and the coffee is strong this morning. Hope it helps. Good luck

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm guessing with the heavy growth you are in need of increased co2. You got rid of DIY co2, good, now you have pressurized but you have yet to get it dialed in correctly is my guess. This could also be a reaction to a period of time where there was complete deprivation of co2 during the switch and should recover if your co2 is where it needs to be now.

    Maybe they were grown emerged and you are just experiencing the switching over of the starougyne repen. Algea feeds on those dying leaves so get them out as soon as they show signs of death.

    Your kh and ph show you have enough co2, but my tank shows I have 150+ppm co2 based on kh/ph/co2 chart. Best way I have figured out to use ph to determine good co2, is just finding when I have good co2 based on fish and plants and then testing ph. Now I know where to get my ph in the future if something happens and I have to start over. Usually when I change co2 out or bump my regulator etc.

    If you are completely new to the pressurized co2 then reading up on the threads and stickies on this site are a must. Get your co2 dialed in correctly and pay close attention to your flow of co2 "mist". Be sure it is flowing to all areas of the tank and not being absorbed by your larger plants and not to the lower and smaller plants.

    Once you get that where you think it is good, leave it for a few days and take note of growth. No growth, more algea, up your co2 a "little" more. Fish start to stress, you have two options. Slightly decrease co2 or slightly increase surface agitation. I prefer the latter, as I know that my co2 is as high as I want it and now I can just play around with the surface and the current in the tank.

    Now we found our temporary sweet spot and we leave it there for a few days and take note of plants. Good growth, less algea, fish not stressed, leave everything alone. Now if you need to change anything I would make small, single adjustments. Ie. one small adjustment to co2. Or one small adjustment to flow. This can be the same with light or dosing if they are suspected, but make one small adjustment at a time. This way you are watching the results of your adjustment. This vs. adjusting everything and not actually knowing what changes affected your

    I dose EI to my tank but I go the every other day dry dosing so I am not sure how to direct you on your dosing. I keep my ratios between the ferts the same and only test my nitrates. If my nitrates are low I adjust everything up in proportion to how much I raise my nitrates.

    You don't state your dosing rates so if someone else chimes in about dosing you might want to have that information ready. I won't get into that though. It seems you are dosing the right things so I assume you are short in the co2 dept.

    In my experience when I know everything else is right, (ferts, co2, light) and I still have poor growth somewhere, then it is the flow in the tank that is off. Clogged filter, mis directed spray bar, or heavy plant growth stopping current.

    I know I kinda threw a bunch out there, I haven't had breakfast and the coffee is strong this morning. Hope it helps. Good luck
     
  3. BenFishin

    BenFishin Lifetime Members
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    I'm not sure that the color max bulb is doing much. It may be giving a good color to your tank but minimal of the correct spectrum to the plants. However, the three other bulbs you have might be enough for the tank as is. Just throwing out ideas.
     
  4. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Use distilled water when making fertilizer solutions. Tap water can contain enough phosphate to cause a problem when mixing trace containing Fe, i.e., precipitates. It may also contain enough nitrate and phosphate to throw off your calculations.

    Your macro dose may contain more KH2PO4, then is necessary but I'm not sure how much premix solution you add to your tank or what is going on with your tap water. You might find increasing the level of nitrate helpful. You might also find that with higher levels of CO2 you can reduce the amount of PO4 you add w/out GSA problems. GSA seems to be related to both low levels of CO2 and/or PO4. In your case, I doubt that low levels of PO4 were/are a problem.

    CSM+B could also be low depending on the amount you are adding. I would dose 10mL of your trace daily.
     
    #4 Tug, Mar 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2014
  5. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Personally, I'm not a fan of combining KH2PO4 and KNO3 into one stock solution. The reason I like to keep separate stock solutions is to avoid solubility issues but mostly it also allows me to adjust the levels of one nutrient independently of the other.

    I took another look at your NPK stock solution and an EI daily dose for phosphate would be about 5ml, providing 0.56ppm, PO4. The problem is that that dose is only providing 1.84ppm, NO3. Basically, half the recommended EI daily dose listed on wets nutrient calculator.

    If you try adding more KNO3 to your stock solution you might run into solubility issues. One way around this would be to reduce the amount of KH2PO4 you are adding. If I were to adjust your NPK stock solution, I would keep the KNO3 the same (11tsp might be better), add between 1.5 and 1.75 teaspoons of KH2PO4 and 1.75 teaspoons of K2SO4. This could then be dosed at 10mL/daily.
     
    #5 Tug, Mar 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2014
  6. BenFishin

    BenFishin Lifetime Members
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    Any luck? If so what was the culprit?
     
  7. dbot

    dbot Member

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    I'm hoping to hear from this guy soon. I really appreciate the write up from both of you guys:BenFishin and Tug. Honestly I think dialing in the CO2 and nutrients via ferts and lighting are all so difficult for beginners. Seeing as I'm a noob myself, this guide was just straightforward and easy to follow. I'm going to be a little more diligent in monitoring my own setup but this is a great start
     
  8. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    I've been following the progress on another forum. I think he has stopped dosing. The soil mentioned should provide, for a while. I overlooked the soil type in the OP. I don't think it matters but he is convinced that the CSM+B is causing problems. An over reaction, IMHO.
     
  9. BenFishin

    BenFishin Lifetime Members
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    Thanks for the props dbot. I agree it is all very difficult to grasp sometimes, and it is difficult for me to grow like "I used to". I am sure there are seasoned vets that get stumped sometimes too. Busy with work, family, other hobbies, etc. can also play a role in forgetting what you are doing and where you have been. Sometimes I just lose interest in the hobby (this happens with most every hobby I have from time to time). Journaling is best. When you change something, write down why you are changing something, what you changed, and the results. You then can jump back in after a break and remember what you were doing back when you were growing weeds. You are looking at old results from your tank, your water, your light, your habits, instead of reading success stories from others water perameters and different light setups etc.

    I am in and out of the habit of journaling. I did look back in a journal from 2008 when I really started going deep into plants. I have a note that I have since forgotten even though I have read it on here since. "Too high of light results resembles low co2 results." I believe this has to be over looked by many. At the time I had heavy plants, had 14 hr photo period running dual CFs and 4 hr 150 MH, dosing my own EI (hadn't read the barr report yet), and I had algea on glass, poor growth and algea on my difficult species. It all pointed to more co2 to me. I started running it 24/7, gassing fish, getting more algea. Then my MH burnt out. Algea went away, plants started soaring, co2 could be lowered, fish were happy.

    So, if you can follow EI well, dose consistent co2 just a tick lower than stresses your fish, keep on your water changes, have correct flow, do everything else that we all preach and have been preached at about, and have you still have poor growth, then you may need to reduce your light.

    I have 4 t5ho on my 65 now for a few days. Water is at 18 from bottom, light is 10" above water, and I have 10 hr photo period. I think it is too much. GSA showing on glass, bba starting to grow back. I had a bout with it 10 weeks or so ago, I won.

    I doubt what we see in the pictures are trace excesses. I could, and have been in the past, be wrong.

    When something works for the better, I hope he is different from most and returns to tell his tale. I see this in all forums. Someone has a problem and asks a question. People give all sorts of solutions but the thread starter never returns to tell what the actual problem was and how it was fixed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for the props dbot. I agree it is all very difficult to grasp sometimes, and it is difficult for me to grow like "I used to". I am sure there are seasoned vets that get stumped sometimes too. Busy with work, family, other hobbies, etc. can also play a role in forgetting what you are doing and where you have been. Sometimes I just lose interest in the hobby (this happens with most every hobby I have from time to time). Journaling is best. When you change something, write down why you are changing something, what you changed, and the results. You then can jump back in after a break and remember what you were doing back when you were growing weeds. You are looking at old results from your tank, your water, your light, your habits, instead of reading success stories from others water perameters and different light setups etc.

    I am in and out of the habit of journaling. I did look back in a journal from 2008 when I really started going deep into plants. I have a note that I have since forgotten even though I have read it on here since. "Too high of light results resembles low co2 results." I believe this has to be over looked by many. At the time I had heavy plants, had 14 hr photo period running dual CFs and 4 hr 150 MH, dosing my own EI (hadn't read the barr report yet), and I had algea on glass, poor growth and algea on my difficult species. It all pointed to more co2 to me. I started running it 24/7, gassing fish, getting more algea. Then my MH burnt out. Algea went away, plants started soaring, co2 could be lowered, fish were happy.

    So, if you can follow EI well, dose consistent co2 just a tick lower than stresses your fish, keep on your water changes, have correct flow, do everything else that we all preach and have been preached at about, and have you still have poor growth, then you may need to reduce your light.

    I have 4 t5ho on my 65 now for a few days. Water is at 18 from bottom, light is 10" above water, and I have 10 hr photo period. I think it is too much. GSA showing on glass, bba starting to grow back. I had a bout with it 10 weeks or so ago, I won.

    I doubt what we see in the pictures are trace excesses. I could, and have been in the past, be wrong.

    When something works for the better, I hope he is different from most and returns to tell his tale. I see this in all forums. Someone has a problem and asks a question. People give all sorts of solutions but the thread starter never returns to tell what the actual problem was and how it was fixed.
     
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