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  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
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Plant Deficiency and other Symptoms

Discussion in 'Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here' started by slalomsk8er, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. slalomsk8er

    slalomsk8er Junior Poster

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    Hi

    I am missing a article for beginners like me, that explains in text and pictures the message I should get if I look at my plants.

    Sure there are such articles on the web but after 10 min I gave up because of all the mixed in myths like "this is the look of too much N" with out dosing or vital information that let you know there is more then just the knowledge that reducing N fixed the issue.

    Please can we have one that adheres to the scientific correctness I love from this place?

    I would like to propose a clear structure to aid the beginner.

    • Symtoms
      • A crude overview of a general symptom like yellow leafs and pointers to the later exact description of the deficiencies that produce yellow leafs.
      • Symptoms of damages produced by other factors like animals, temperature, wrong handling and ...
    • Deficiencies
      • General sings of the particular deficiency with such comments, that Iron could be pushed out of solution my PO4 and what happens if you push that particular plant nutrient to high.
      • A plant specific description for some of the significant plants with pictures and if possible with pictures of other deficiencies that could be easily mistaken for that particular deficiency.

    I am willing to help where I can but I am still a beginner my self.
    Be sure that I am willing to pay for this kind of quality information. The upgrade to the lifetime membership would be my fist action even if the article just came to live and I would not need the lifetime membership to access it.

    Regards,
    Dominik Riva
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    There are many variables there.
    Variables that aquarist cannot often times, get a handle on.
    Variables that cannot be measured/are not measured, are assumed to be "okay", "I know they are perfect" etc.

    We have 300-400 species of aquatic plants.
    Each plant species would need to have a hydroponic test done for each nutrient.
    In submersed culture, CO2, KH would have a profound effect and would be difficult to standardized.

    CO2 is not treated as a nutrient in any table I've seen.
    Carbon is central to uptake and assimilation of the other nutrients, all enzymes, and is typically the most limiting variable factor.

    I know what some species that have issues look like from some nutrient issues, but algae is a better clue in many cases. The other problem is that if we get one plant studied well, folks will infer that it applied to all 300-400 species, when in fact, all we may know is just about that one species, nothing more.

    Tables and charts for 300-400 species of untested, rarely kept aquatic herbs, has no economic value and the research simply has not been done. Aquatic weed research is an economic issue(huge), but as ornamental horticulture plants, there's not much interest or $.

    The best hope is using the noxious aquatic weed research to look at the issues, but even this is rare, since few are in CO2 enriched habitats.:cool:

    I do not think you are going to get answers this way.
    Better to focus on what produces nice growth for all species.
    That's much easier to answer.

    So what direction you take with the question and goal is important!

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. slalomsk8er

    slalomsk8er Junior Poster

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    OK, I was maybe a bit too demanding for scientific correctness.

    I would be more then happy if the article would "only" mention common aquarium plants and only list them as genus (top 5 would be more then enough).

    What you described would brake the size of an article and would be enough food for a book.

    So if I understand you right, I have to depend on the wisdom of the members every time I have a plant that does not look as good as it could? There is no chance in collecting this wisdom in to an article for fast reference and learning?

    Regards,
    Dominik Riva
     
  4. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

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    Experience

    Hi Dominik,

    Early on I really do advise you to take Tom Barr’s inimitable advice and for now concentrate on observation, with an eye to not limiting the nutrient availability, read, spend time in a good library, take a class or six. Really not much beats plain old experience in plant keeping.;)

    There are a number of good resources out there that break down in generalities different symptoms, but it is better to give yourself some time.:)

    You are a subscriber, I recommend you start reading the stuff on the home page, I got my US 80 dollars worth my first couple of weeks, I also brought 50 plus years of experience, experimenting, reading and education to the reading. I wish I would have known this stuff before I messed up so many times.:eek:

    I genuinely recommend you start reading the material here I think http://www.barrreport.com/barr-report-newsletter/2359-barr-report-newsletter-plant-growth-volume-1-a.html is a great place to start.

    After you have got through the lot, I’ll send you a couple of links if you still want them.:rolleyes:

    Biollante
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, a good picture detailing the issue helps.
    Better than any article and specific.
    Hard to beat experience, and it's often hard to detail and describe without more information from the person with the problem to begin with. Takes a few minutes etc, but then you get a specific response and questions that flush out the problem much better than guessing so much.

    Then you can focus on several issues that you may have, rarely it is any one single thing that's the problem.

    I've not found many of the plant's deficiencies to be too telling and none of the tables to work well.

    Algae is another matter.
    They are more useful at identifying what is wrong.
    There are far fewer species also that plague aquarist, maybe 10-15 common species/groups.

    You can also rule out deficiencies easier than pinpointing a specific deficiency.
    So management and the solution is easier as well than the alternative you are suggesting.

    Does not answer the specific question you might have, but simply adding non limiting nutrients, CO2, light would resolve this issue of deficiency.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. slalomsk8er

    slalomsk8er Junior Poster

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    Thank you for your answers.

    It is one of my needs to know as much as I can since I can think. I am sort of a information addict I guess. To know about the symptoms that plants do show under different conditions was what I thought would be the next thing I need to learn. I respect your advice that this will not get me as far as I though when I started that thread.

    I will continue with studying the BarrReports and I would like any of the links you mentioned Biollante.

    Now that the NO2 is falling to a level I and my fish can live with I will focusing an the forming algae and try to find out, what it wants me to tell about my tank ;)

    Thanks again,
    Dominik Riva
     
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