This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

PH 4.6-5.6 with RO water and CO2 injection - how to rise it.Urgent

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by borman, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. borman

    borman Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello,

    I have face with serious problem and I need your help guys.

    Planted Tank 125*50*50 (82 gal)
    Light ATI Sanpower 6*54 t5:step method
    2 hour - 2*54
    6hours 4*54
    2 hours 2*54
    Ferts maintained levels
    NO3 15
    PO4 0.8
    +Micro (Fluorish Trace)+Fe (EDTA)
    Water
    Using mixing RO withTap water 1/5. - this gave me КН 2,5-3. My Ro water have Ph 5.7 and when made 40% o weekly changes - Ph in my tank was aprox 5,9.
    Before:

    I used Inline CO2 reactor (installed after canister filter output and before entering into tank) CO2 injection has been controlled by PH Probe and maintained PH 6,0-6,1 - I was using this system about half year.
    But my DC (with test solution from Dennerle) was always mm' not light green and not dark green, so i suggested that it was not 30 ppm of CO2. In addition, in view of some of my plants, it was clear that a greater amount of Co2 is needed.

    So I radically change CO2 injection method -I remove my inline reactor and install DIY diffuser (here the link you can look and compare it with dennerle or ada diffusers http://video.yandex.ru/users/arryl77/view/3/)
    Also here you can look how its installed http://video.yandex.ru/users/arryl77/view/1/.

    Intensity 3 bps (bubbles checked via 5 mm standart oxygen tube)
    Time. Start at 9-00 (1 hour before light on) and end at 19-00 (1 hour before light off)
    No additional aeration, only hanged filter which work 24/7 (but its get really slow surface agitation)
    Ph probe is simply to monitor Ph level

    Results DC - is green at morning and bright green around 13-00.
    Ph fluctuation 6.3 at morning and 5,5 at evening.
    Fish for the most part did not show signs of oxygen starvation.
    But I noticed that even though the fact that the appearance of the plants was much better, perling was markedly less than before , I was rarely noticed my shrimp and found unhealthy behavior of some fishes. SAE: became like faded. Aslo i found some dead fishes (only 1 R.heteromorpha).
    Also the second week after the next WC I noticed a slight clouding of the water.All fish ( I have about 50 P.innesi 50 R.heteromorpha 20 Oto and some amount of C.Japonica)
    Then decided to check my Ph probe and its was SHOCK. My real Ph fluctuations was from 4,8 to 5,6. Ind its look that it was from the beginning of using this injection method.
    So now I need good solution what to do.
    Actually my Plants is happy with such amount of co2 View attachment 1112 and according to DC its bright green (30-35mg) (for example friend of mine use the same DC solution in his tank with ADA substrate KH3 same tap+ro mixing etc - and have even yellow color)
    So CO2 concentration is quite good, but due to my RO has lo PH and I add CO2 during 7 hours with 3bps intensity) Ph drop very fast and night rice is aprox 0.5-0.6.
    So may be its possible to rise ph (for example adding something to Ro water). Decreasing CO2 injection rate is not a sloution cause when I tried 2 or 2,3 bps, the DC was not bright green.
    Also can i connect clouding of water with mmm.. may be some bacteria died due to low ph. etc.

    Sorry for long and muddled message. - but I really need the urgent solution.....
     
  2. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,077
    Likes Received:
    4
    If you JUST want to boost the pH a little, you could try something like Barr's Gh booster. This will add some other nutrients your plants may be lacking. It should also help stabilize your pH swing.

    I got mine here. http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/

    Of more concern is the reaction of your fish. If they aren't happy due to the CO2, then drop it down a bit. Plants without enough CO2 will muddle on, asphyxiated fish generally do not. Have you moved your drop checker around the tank? You should be shooting for an average value of green around the tank vs. picking a spot. You likely have more than enough CO2 elsewhere in the tank and more flow in the tank will help distribute that without risking your fish.

    -
    S
     
  3. borman

    borman Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually I did not see real signs of asphyxion. For example SAE is like pale (i.e not bright black&White). I moved ph proba and DC around tank. in 3 corners near the same data. I have installed 3 filters 2*JBL Clear Profi 500 and one hanged filter - so have strong current.
     
  4. BigFlusher

    BigFlusher Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am going to guess that if your fish are not reacting with signs of stress then the I question the accuracy of the readings.

    As S said adding GH booster seems a good idea, at minimum will provide buffering.

    Joe
     
  5. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Mystical, Magical GH Booster

    Hi,

    I really think adding a good dose of GH booster is going to solve the low pH problem. :)

    The pH drop you are experiencing is about what one would expect with 30-35 ppm CO2. ;)

    The shrimp would be the first indicator of problems with the Otto's close behind.:gw

    Actually it sounds as though you are doing pretty well! :)

    Biollante
     
  6. borman

    borman Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    But feel like a plant with such acidity of water in terms of physiology? In addition, what physiological processes occur in the water, again in terms of biochemistry water. For example nitrifying bacteria totally inactive or even die? And suddenly, for whatever reason there is an outbreak of ammonium?
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Low pH

    Hi,

    Yeah, the low pH is why I really recommend a good dose of GH booster at each water change.

    I have some plants that seem to really hate alkalinity above 3 or 4 dKH (350-450 ppm) so I mix up the DI water with enough GH booster to get and keep the 6 dGH (700 ppm) or so. This should keep the pH up over 6.0.

    If you do not have any plants or critters that require low alkalinity, I recommend doubling the alkalinity, by either mixing in more tap water or adding a little bit of baking soda, CHNaO3.

    My experience is that the biological filters work well down to pH 5.7 or so, if the pH is indeed is running under 5.4 or so more water changes are in order. I have a couple of tanks I keep at pH 4.9 or so, there is bacterial activity, though I would not depend on it for water quality maintenance.

    A surprising number of plants adapt to pH under 5.5. A few even prefer it, but for most purposes, I find observation of plants and critters generally tells us what we need to know.

    Biollante
     
  8. borman

    borman Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi
    Here you told about 3-4 dKh and 6 Dgh or 6kh?

    Actually now i have 3 Dkh - so i can add more tap when WC to get Dkh4 or 4,5 - You think its give me ph6.0? But ok, my daily Ph fluct now is about 0.5-0.7 so it will drop from 6 to 5,3 and back. But also rising Kh by mixing more tap aslo rise my Gh (my tap has GH 18). I cant get here in Ukraine GH-Booster - so may be adding baking soda is best solution? to rise only KH. but how much I shall add it for example to rise KH in 100 l of RO water from 0 to 4 dKH
    Also i know that when KH is 1 or 0 its more safty in case of overdosing CO2, compare when you have 4 or 5 DKH. Any suggestion?
     
  9. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Tap Water Is Your GH Booster!

    Hi,

    Okay, this is my direct advice:

    Increase the amount of tap water to one quarter (¼) to three quarter (¾) RO. (1 part tap: 3 parts RO)

    Give that a try, you will probably be able to get a balance adjusting the tap water, RO ratio.

    Also, remember that pH fluctuations caused by CO2 are not as much of a problem to plants and critters as those caused by us dosing various salts and such. ;)

    Biollante
     
  10. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    2
    I don't believe that Tom's GH Booster has any effect on KH. To increase that, and the pH, use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate.)

    Bill
     
  11. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Nary A Bit of KH

    Hi Bill, borman, All,

    Most absolutely correct Barr's GH Booster is:
    • 3 parts K2SO4, Potassium sulfate
    • 3 parts CaSO4, Calcium sulfate
    • 1 part MgSO4, Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salts)
    This combination adds only to the GH and nary a bit to the carbonate hardness, KH. ;)

    In our friend borman’s situation, I believe that finding the appropriate combination of RO and tap water will resolve the issue without complication of additional salts. :gw

    From what I gather from the conversation a 1 to 3, tap water to RO ratio should boost the minimum pH sufficiently. Personally, I think borman could go 1 to 2 or even 1 to 1, depending on plants and critters.:)

    Biollante
     
  12. mi5haha

    mi5haha Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can raise KH alone by using ADA's Brighty K, or simply Potassium carbonate. It can raise pH instantly.

    But you need to measure pH everyday, add them everyday. The benefit is that you don't have raising GH again after all your efforts in making RO water.
     
  13. borman

    borman Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok I will try to mix more tap. I sure that I can do 1to1 (cause GH of my tap is quite high 19 and KH 10) so may be 1to3 is quite good.
    In Saturday will do WC and will write the results....
     
  14. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sorry

    Hi borman, All,

    I know most of my advice revolved around GH, the original part that caught my interest was the (to me at the time) alarmingly low pH you reported.

    I was operating under a very large misconception that Jonny and Tom Barr have corrected for me. http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6837-Buffering-Is-KH-Necessary?p=45445#post45445

    Under any circumstance pH is not important, no buffering of any kind is required.

    My apologies for misleading you.

    Biollante
     
    #14 Biollante, Jan 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page