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overdosing micro's

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by yme, May 17, 2007.

  1. yme

    yme Lifetime Charter Member
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    dear all,

    I wondered what would be the effect of overdosing micro's in my tank that is doing reasonable good. Good plant growth (although i see some stunting, little algae apart from some occasional spirogyra?) tank needs pruning at least once a week. 50% of water is changed 2x/week.

    What would happen if I add 2-3x the adviced amount of micro's according to EI? Let's assume the tank is light limited and CO2 is not an issue. Is it just a waste of money or could I induce algae, deficiency/toxicity of some element?

    greets,

    yme
     
  2. Frolicsome_Flora

    Frolicsome_Flora Guru Class Expert

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    If your tank is growing nicely why would you want to? If it aint broke.. etc etc
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I've routinely add about 2-10X the maximum trace mixes without even noting any issue.

    I dosed 200mls in a 20 gallon tank of Flourish.
    I dosed 20mls of TMG in a 20 gallon 3x a week for 4 weeks.

    Spirogyra is not that bad but seems like the CO2 could use some work, adding more current might help or changing the existing current routine.

    Go in there and try to prune it out really good and then stick to good routines thereafter, with special attention to CO2.

    So you are wasting the traces if adding more under non limiting conditions.
    Since it cost more than KNO3, this is a real issue.

    Most do not want to waste traces or light.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  4. yme

    yme Lifetime Charter Member
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    it´s doing oke. but can be improved. :D the wallichii for instance is still a bit ratty. I would like to exclude a microelement deficiency by overdosing. In addition, I would like to see what could happen to a tank when your overdosing. what are the symptoms? but if I understand corectly, there are none, except an empty wallet....

    @tom,
    I will try to get a better flow. there are enough pumps: 1x eheim professional, 1x 600 watt powerhead (with CO2 inlet) and a 900 watt powerhead connected to an external co2 reactor (this one is not pumping too fast).

    thanks!

    yme
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    With ample light, R wallichii in softer water grows like a weed.
    If you have troubles with it, try adding the CO2 flow right on it.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. PaulB

    PaulB Subscriber

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    Hi Tom, when you say soft, how soft do you mean?
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Relative term I know.

    5 or less KH.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. PaulB

    PaulB Subscriber

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    what about Gh?
     
  9. yme

    yme Lifetime Charter Member
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    hi Tom,

    you already suggested that and I followed your advice. It receives now more CO2 than the tonina (which is growing great). KH is around 3 and GH is 7. As you may remember I gassed my fish due to a too high CO2 level. pH is now 5.90

    greets,

    yme
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Gh is is fine as long as it's above 1-2 of so, it can be 10 or so without issues with so called soft water plants.

    KH is the real issue.

    YME,

    either there is something in you tap water that is not being tested, such as copper etc, or it's just maintenance and consistency.

    Sometimes folks have to work and bit harder to get things going, then they can relax a bit after getting over a hump. It could be something like poor/reduced flow from a filter, cleaning the CO2 diffuser, a good trim, not doing a water change when you should , not dosing consistently etc.

    I use to think all sorts of things in the past, but I know it's just me not doing or looking at something that might be the reason.

    Everytime.

    While copper or other issues(high Na+) do occur, they have only been found definitely in 2 or 3 cases out thousands that I've helped.
    So they are very rare.

    SAE's will nibble R wallichii also.

    regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. yme

    yme Lifetime Charter Member
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    hi Tom,

    waterchanges (2x/weeek 50%) and ferts adding are very consistant (have printed a scheme which is next to the tank). cleaning the pump was was done 2 weeks ago. I could imagine that it is still a CO2 related issue. growth has improved since I put it next to the CO2 outlets. If so, it is just tweaking.
    A week ago I showed someone how the automatic CO2/pH electrode worked. I put the electrode in a cup of tapwater and showed him my "mist". Unfortunately, I forgot to put the electrode back in the tank. So 15 minutes later I saw my fish at the surface: pH was 5.67. Due to this accident I now now that 5.67 is too low. pH is now 5.90 so only a 0.2 difference that's left (i know, that's still a lot of CO2). Although it's not related to the wallichii I can imagine that there is a lack of current (and therefore CO2) on the opposing side of the CO2 outlet. It's really full of plants: less current.

    If that doesn't work, I'll try less light. on my 100x30x30 (cm), 90 liter tank I have 2x 30 watt T8 for 10 hours and 1x 30 watt T8 for 1 hour.
    *just did a bit of converting: 9 hours 2.5 watt/gallon and 1 hour 3.75 watt/gallon. this is in bruto liters and I have reflectors on all TLs. maybe I can remove the light pak of 1 hour.....*

    in respect to untested elements: I'll go to the LFS to test for copper. BTW have you ever heard of aluminium poisoning? I have seen a great tank which has a aluminium hood. Some parts can come in contact with condensed water from the tank and may fall back into the tank. Would this be a problem? (it is rally a very nice tank).

    a bit off-topic....

    greets,

    yme
     
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Al3+ poisoning is unlikely due to large water changes, unless it is in the tap.

    Generally, adding a carbon prefilter for the tap water resolves most issues.
    CO2 should be decent, you shoyuld see pearlign inside 2 hours after the lights turn on.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. yme

    yme Lifetime Charter Member
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    hi Tom,

    I don't think there is pearling after just 2 hours. I never really monitored it specifically, but I think it takes 4 hours. If I remember correctly, I do see bubbles at the needle plants, but that is (I think) just trapped CO2 mist.

    greets,

    yme
     
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