ok i'm being thick!!!

Greg Watson

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Biollante;40925 said:
This is where Greg Watson, Professor Greg is his sobriquet

"Sobriquet" ... I had to look that one up ... and I still don't think I know what it means ...

So here's a thumbs up to being "Thick" !!!!
 

Biollante

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Guru Alert

Hi Gbark,

Happy to hear the Clown Loach is moving. Clown Loaches are wonderful fish, with antics that can entertain for hours. They also are very social creatures with highly developed hierarchy run by a dominate female. Clown Loaches need lots of room, groups of five or more and will grow to 16 plus inches.

Happy to hear your Cory Julii a Cory Julii, a friend (anyone who doesn’t throw weed killer on me and/or try to burn me out) saw the post and said that more people in the trade are getting hip to the differences, though a Cory Julii ought command a premium.

See disclaimer below.

I am not a chemist (you got to know a ‘but’ is coming), but, Mg(NO3)2 (Molar weight of 148.3151 g/mol) is a salt when exposed to the atmosphere it quickly forms the hexahydrate with the formula Mg(NO3)2•6H2O (molar weight of 256.41 g/mol). It is very soluble in both water and moderately so in ethanol.

I am pretty sure you have 36% solution and will find the molar weight to be 256.41 g/mol, hence Mg(NO3)2•6H2O with 64% water. I think 125 grams of Mg(NO3)2•6H2O mixed into 100 ml of H20 yields 100% (or as close as we can get) solution. Therefore your 36% solution would contain 45 grams Mg(NO3)2•6H2O per 100 ml.

I am not sure of my arithmetic, but I am somewhere in the range. On the other hand since I buy Mg(NO3)2•6H2O by the bag, I provide my own water and I admit in my quick experiment, I was not able to get 120 grams into solution with 100 ml of DI water.

Beyond this, oh well.:)

We need one of them thar gurus to emerge and tell us how it is and give us a good, what for. :D

Biollante
 

Biollante

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Magnesium Nitrate

Hi Gbark,

I guess I don’t follow, the linked Wikipedia seems to say pretty much what I thought I said and what my bag of magnesium nitrate says.:)

Further, the reaction between nitric acid and magnesium 2 HNO3 + Mg → Mg(NO3)2 + H2 is one of the ways to synthesize magnesium nitrate.

Magnesium nitrate’s love of water causes it to form the hexahydrate (still a solid salt) upon exposure to air. ;)

Beating a dead horse is unseemly.

Biollante
 

Biollante

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Love The Fertz

Hi Professor Greg,

"Sobriquet", an unofficial name or nickname, especially a humorous one; being a potted plant there is no deep meaning, just struck me on seeing that picture you have, plastered all over the place that, well seemed you were a ‘sobriquet’, rather than ‘nickname’ kind of person.;)

Obliquely, I suppose darker meaning could be attached, cinematically speaking, by the attachment to and use by “V”, in the movie V for Vendetta, that however, would be deep waters for the uneducated wretch I am.:eek:

Biollante
 

Gbark

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Hi Biollante,

I have been dosing as you have directed, this is my first week, and a few of my plants (red special's) have got yellow and black leaves and look like they are dying.

Is this normal?

Thanks:)
 

Biollante

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No It Is Not "Normal"

Gbark;41108 said:
Hi Biollante,

I have been dosing as you have directed, this is my first week, and a few of my plants (red special's) have got yellow and black leaves and look like they are dying.

Is this normal?

Thanks:)

Hi Gbark,

No that is not normal, I'll review the tread I got lost in the magnesium nitrate.

Give me what details and a sense of what is happening as best you can.

When did you notice what kind of thing.

What day was the beginning water change?

Edit:
This is the dosing you are following:
On weekly water-change , third and sixth day:
• KNO3 ¼ teaspoon
• KH2PO4 1/8 teaspoon
• MgSO4 1 teaspoon

On second, fourth and seventh day:
• TPN Liquid 16 milliliter
(Take the fifth day off.)

I also recommend a good GH booster; Barr’s GH Booster is what I use.
• GH Booster, ¼ teaspoon every weekly water-change.

Are you using a GH booster?

Biollante
 

Biollante

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Hi Gbark,

We spent a good bit of time discussing magnesium nitrate, I need to be clear if you used any of this or any other fertilizer or additves not included in the above list.

Biollante
 

Biollante

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My Bad!

Hi Gbark,

My bad!:(

The macronutrients are correct for dosing three times a week. Put the other way around a week’s dosing would be three times that amount.

I erred on the liquid TPN the dose three times a week should have been six (6) milliliters for a total weekly dose of 18 mililiters.:eek:

It should be:

On weekly water-change , third and sixth day:
• KNO3 ¼ teaspoon
• KH2PO4 1/8 teaspoon
• MgSO4 1 teaspoon

On second, fourth and seventh day:
• TPN Liquid 6 milliliter
(Take the fifth day off.)

I also recommend a good GH booster; Barr’s GH Booster is what I use.
• GH Booster, ¼ teaspoon every weekly water-change.

You need a major water change 50% at least, 70% would be better. Then dose the macronutrients.

More to follow.

I am sorry, that was a sloppy error on my part, no excuse.:(

Biollante
 

Biollante

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+ Or No +

Hi Gbark,

Just rechecked the numbers, even with my out-of-whack numbers, TPN liquid really should not be that out-of-whack. A water change would be a good idea.:eek:

If it is TPN+, the Nitrates will be way high by the third dose. Definitely need a big water change, 70% would be ideal.

In your first post, you clearly stated TPN+ (a product I have never used), I guess I read your second post you wrote it as “TPN micros” (no +), a product I have used and have the data sheet.

This is a failing on my part, not yours, you wrote, honestly indicating that you were confused it was my failure, to note the discrepancy and ask the clarifying question(s). I took on role of “the one in the know,” again; a sloppy mistake, on my part.

Biollante
 

Gbark

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Its ok Biollante,

I haven't used the TPN + since your suggestion. I went to my LFS and Bought the TPN normal and my dry powders. So in fact i have been dosing as you suggested, and therefore no failure on your part.

I have (sorry, will have by the time you read this) done a 50% water change.

Is it Nitrate that that causes the yellowing of the leaves?

Geoff
 

Biollante

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Water Change, Good

Hi Geoff,

There is never a bad time to do a water change, when in doubt change water, as with everything I am sure there is a limit, I just have not found it when it comes to water changes.:)

Actually, Nitrogen deficiency is more likely to cause yellowing than to much. Use of ammonia based fertilizers; the kinds made for terrestrial plants can cause that kind of yellowing. In my experience the ammonia from the nitrogen cycle is not high enough to harm plants.

The fact is that your dosing with TPN Liquid should be pretty much on target, if TPN were as cheap as CSM+B, I would be recommending closer to 60 ml, three times a week.

I have you on a rather high dose of MgSO4, technically the heptahydrate MgSO4.7H2O, Epsom Salt. For now cut that in half to ½ teaspoon three times a week.

And just for kicks and giggles, check that you are indeed using the heptahydrate MgSO4.7H2O, "Epsomite", normal Epsom Salt and not the monohydrate, MgSO4.H2O, "Kieserite", almost no chance you are using straight MgSO4, but humor me.

Back to some basics, you use a drop checker, what do you use for the reference solution?

When was the last time you changed the solution?

Have you moved the drop checker around? Remember the drop checker tells us about the condition in that location approximately two hours prior, unless yours has the gas permeable membrane.

Just, if you would, tell me about your tank.

My inclination is to think this is a “normal” CO2/circulation problem. By "normal" I mean the type that drives everyone to distraction at least once.:eek:

I am glad it was TPN Liquid, but my sloppiness really worries me, I make mistakes, I don’t even mind messing up and learning something, but being sloppy is not my style. So alittle back to basics for both of us.:)

Biollante
 

Gbark

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Hi Biollante



I have you on a rather high dose of MgSO4, technically the heptahydrate MgSO4.7H2O, Epsom Salt. For now cut that in half to ½ teaspoon three times a week.

And just for kicks and giggles, check that you are indeed using the heptahydrate MgSO4.7H2O, "Epsomite", normal Epsom Salt and not the monohydrate, MgSO4.H2O, "Kieserite", almost no chance you are using straight MgSO4, but humor me.

It just says MgSO4 B.P. (i got it from the chemist)

Back to some basics, you use a drop checker, what do you use for the reference solution?

Ready made from my LFS

When was the last time you changed the solution?

Weekly

Have you moved the drop checker around? Remember the drop checker tells us about the condition in that location approximately two hours prior, unless yours has the gas permeable membrane.

Yes i do, and i have two of them

Just, if you would, tell me about your tank.

It is a rio 125 the co2 is diffused via a pollen filter and has a eheim 1000 above it to help distribution, there are several fish and several plants ( i think you have seen my stock list)
Two T5 lamps, tropica substrate, and 3cm (ish) gravel
Jewuel filter bio 3

My inclination is to think this is a “normal” CO2/circulation problem. By "normal" I mean the type that drives everyone to distraction at least once.:eek:

I also think that i need the co2 running longer before lights on, as it takes a few hours in the morning before my drop checker shows green:)

I am glad it was TPN Liquid, but my sloppiness really worries me, I make mistakes, I don’t even mind messing up and learning something, but being sloppy is not my style. So alittle back to basics for both of us.:)

I'm still at the, learning the basics lol!!

Thanks ~G
 

Biollante

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Magnesium Sulfate Heptahydrate

Hi Geoff,

Yeah, part of what confuses folks, MgSO4 B.P. is Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate, MgSO4.7H2O and it is 99.5 pure, good stuff, good old Epsom Salt.;)

Actually you are doing well.:)

Just keep doing the things, you will get the CO2 tweaked in just no sudden changes, keep moving it up in small increments when you are able watch your critters.;)

Biollante
 

nipat

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Gbark;41235 said:
-snip-

I also think that i need the co2 running longer before lights on, as it takes a few hours in the morning before my drop checker shows green:)

-snip-

Hi,

Yes, it needs to run before lights on. But I've found 1 hour (as Tom's advice) is adequate and I've also seen other here choose 90 mins.

I tried 2 hours but got same result as 1 hour (I use a DIY reactor).

Air-buffered drop checker doesn't report in real time. What you see is the state
of CO2 a few hours (not sure 2 or 3) before, in that position.:)

And I've also found that turning off the CO2 1 hour (as Tom's advice—again:D )
before lights off provides same result as turning it off at the same time as the lights.
Because there still is enough CO2 in the reactor.


Well, just notice that you already use membrane type drop checker. :eek:
 

Gbark

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I think i have cracked this EI lark now:)

But just to make sure, can i run some solutions i have made past you guys.

KNO3
102g in 500ml RO water, 1ml gives 1ppm so i dose 7ml, 3x week

KH2PO4
46g in 500ml RO water, 1ml gives 0.5ppm so i dose 7ml, 3x week

MgSO4
95g in 500ml RO water, 1ml gives 0.15ppm so i dose 29ml, 3x week

My tank is 33gallon (125ltr)

thanks ~G:)
 

nipat

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Hi,

First I would list the dosage for 20-40 gallon from:
http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/2819-ei-light-those-less-techy-folks.html
And then translate some of them to PPM, because PPM can be applied to any tank size.
And I would use 20 gallon as a reference. Because my tank is 20 gallon with dense
plant biomass, so I use this 20-40 gallon rate instead of the 10-20.

20-40 Gallon Aquariums

+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week = 1.4 g or 10.73 PPM per dose (32.19 PPM total, 64.38 PPM upper
limit)

+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week = 0.3 g or 2.62 PPM per dose (7.86 PPM total, 15.72 PPM
upper limit)

+/- 1/2 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only) (About 2:1 of CaSO4:MgSO4 in
that 1/2 tsp )

+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week = Mix 33 g (2 tablespoons) of Plantex
CSM+B to 500 ml water and dose 5ml 3x a week.

50% weekly water change


Now, your dosage:

KNO3
102g in 500ml RO water, 1ml gives 1ppm so i dose 7ml, 3x week

This is 7 PPM per dose, 21 PPM total, 42 PPM upper limit.
(A bit too little but should be OK)

KH2PO4
46g in 500ml RO water, 1ml gives 0.5ppm so i dose 7ml, 3x week

This is 3.5 PPM per dose, 10.5 PPM total, 21 PPM upper limit.
(A bit too high but should be OK)

MgSO4
95g in 500ml RO water, 1ml gives 0.15ppm so i dose 29ml, 3x week

This is 5.51 g per dose, 16.53 g per week.
(Too high, for your tank size it's 1.41-2.11 g per week—I just dose this once a week
when changing water)


It seems you use Chuck's calculator. I think his target is PMDD, not EI.
So I use his calculator only to find out how much to add to hit Tom's target.
(Because Tom talks by TSP but I want to dose in gram since my smallest
spoons is 1/4 and I want to dose daily. I don't want to remember yesterday
I dosed macros or micros.)

When I started dosing EI. I was quite afraid that it could harm my critters.
So I started with half of Tom's target. But as I saw no bad thing happens,
I have upped the dosage to full EI dosing at last.

Looking at the KNO3 upper limit 64.38 PPM, it looks frightening at first because
the number is very high. But if your plants consume 50% of that, what's left is
just 32.19 PPM, very reasonably safe. Even Tetra (the German company) doesn't
think 32.19 PPM of nitrate is high or dangerous. Their test kit's manual says
I should change water if the nitrate is more than 50 PPM.:)

Are you sure you don't need Ca ?
 

barbarossa4122

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Just purchased "Aquarium Plants and Aquatic Plants - Greg Watson's Guide to Dosing Strateges for Live and Freshwater Aquarium Plants". I hope it clears some of my confusions.:)
 

Gbark

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Jun 15, 2009
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barbarossa4122;45139 said:
Just purchased "Aquarium Plants and Aquatic Plants - Greg Watson's Guide to Dosing Strateges for Live and Freshwater Aquarium Plants". I hope it clears some of my confusions.:)



I found the guide very helpful, and i am now well adjusted to my dosing regime. :p