Nutrafin Waste controll

[Petex]

hi,
still want to know if someone has used any products like Nutrafin Waste Controll and so on?
As far as i know Waste controll contains bacteria that break down waste quicker (obvisiously, ammonium levels may temporary increase)
This sounds "ok" (if it would at last do what the company says).

I personally used Anarex Biologisch4 and didnt need to clean my filters so much like in past, but it is primary for prevending Kois and keeping them healthy. I had a pretty sick shrimp with a very bad bacterial issue and used the stuff there too - it really helped and this convinced me that adding the right bacterias on a regular base can be a very good thing.

So I want to know if adding any special bacterias for breaking down waste (quicker) - if this will also give some advantages (or) perhaps disadvantages?
What happens with any phosphatedepots, will Waste controll also break down such things?

 

[Tom Barr]

If you keep up the normal care of an established aquarium, these products should never be needed or used.

The bacteria will grow and multiply and be present and adding some thing from a bottle will not really offer much help.

Example: you can take the sponge filter from one tank and squeeze the detritus mulm, the dirty brown muck.............which is mostly bacteria laden organic matter.............to another tank, does it help?
Those are actively growing live bacteria, and it does not get any fresher and live than that. Bacteria require O2 to break waste down. So good high stable O2 is a key aspect for cycling and good bacterial transformations of various waste into useable nutrients etc by plants.

 

[Petex]

Example: you can take the sponge filter from one tank and squeeze the detritus mulm, the dirty brown muck.............which is mostly bacteria laden organic matter.............to another tank, does it help?
Those are actively growing live bacteria, and it does not get any fresher and live than that.

That´s right, but by doing you -also- transfer any pathogenic bacterias from one tank to another tank.
Cycling a tank with stuff like Anarex will make good tank cycling -> without transfering any "unwanted things". The stuff also drops down the number off pathogenic disease-invoking bacteria, e.g. aeromonas and pseudomonas bacteria (the ones who make topic lesions, rotting mouth, rotting fins and mould infections)
Bacterias from Anarex are based on lactic acid bacteria, lactic acids, enzymes and yeasts --> and you will not find those in a (water) tank or pond (without adding them)

So the difference is that this are other bacterias and not the same like in yours detrius/mulm life.

And I guess, that also things like Waste Controll or any Pond sludge remover, may perhaps contain other bacterias?
Because otherwise, it couldnt break down anything faster (if it would still contain the same bacterias who already life in a water tank)
Or I am wrong with this?

 

[Tom Barr]

I've never had pathogenic bacteria transferred and if I was worried, I'd have to use aspectic methods between my 4-5 tanks and all my client's tanks, which onbviously is a huge P{ITA and frankly I nor the Wholesalers, nor the LFS bother with any of that.
This is a fear mongering sales pitch by those selling this bacteria in a bottle.There is extremely low risk, not absent risk, which they use to sell the product. Healthy fish rarely get disease also.

Those bacteria you list are present in many things and likely in most aquariums.
Lactic and acetic acid based bacteria are common in wetlands and in soil based aquariums.

Waste control, sludge removers are bacteria and sometimes enzymes are use to break sludge down, but so does a good colony of shrimp(good shredders) and high O2 levels, flow.
Activated sludge is used for waste water and drinking water for floc removal.

So a well O2 supplied tank with active plant growth will produce very clear water for many of the same reasons Water treatment plants use it.
You can simply gravel vacuum out excess sludge and mulm. I do this maybe once every 2-3 months.
Some spots accumulate sludge and the sponge filters get mucked up and blocked.
The sludge bacteria actually produce something called EXP's exogenous carbon based polymers strands, think glue like strands of "goo".
This accumulates and sticks to all the tiny fraction of particles in the water. Then the bacteria can attack this food source as it helps weigh it down to a surface where they can consume it.
Once the filter clogs, and the water by passes all this bacterial matrix, then you get less clear water, when you 1st restart the filters, the filter sponge lacks much bacteria and there's a slight haze.
You can use mechanical filtration and micron filters to get around that, but these need changed more often.
Chemicals sometimes work, purigen etc............
Or some bio products.

 

[Petex]

Hi Tom,
I do not have any vacuum pump and honestly, I have no idea how to remove mulm in a planted tank.
If you have things like HCC or whatever so, how will you ever clean the gravel without removing such plants?
So, my tank has never been cleaned since 4years and water is always crystal clear, but Mulm/detrius sticks deep between the gravel (not on top)
It seems many plants like this, some plants not.

The tank had in past fish, after purchasing some new fish - all my fish were getting sick and ill.
This is long times ago - a time where I had not known and not used Anarex.
So I runned the tank the last year without any fish.
Now, I buyed some new fish and my concerns are that any pathogenic bacterias may perhaps be left in the mulm.
So, my idea was too reduce+break down the mulm with any sludge remover and dosing additionally Anarex to get a "good-for-fish" tank back.

 

[Petex]

well, after some testing I can admitt that Nutrafin Waste control seems to be ... "a waste off money".
It simply didn´t do anything whatever the advertisement promises. :grey:

In the meantime I also tested another product from Koi ponds and after the bad experiences with the Nutrafin stuff I was very sceptical - but surprisly the koi pondstuff works.
Normally the small Nano filter needs to be cleaned each week if it has no flow left.
Since using the koi stuff -> the filter works now since 18days without any cleaning and didnt look that dirty.
This is a really good result.
Another very interesting thing is that the glass looks cristall clear - no new GDA come up.
I do not know how this works, but I guess that the stuff builds any biofilm on glass, deko and that the algae can obvisiously not successfully settle down there. But I am not sure about it and needs more testing, because perhaps it still happens by chance that no GDA came up.
Well however, the only disadvantage is that the stuff also reduces Nitrate (obvisiosily some other nutritions too), but at last it is unimportand as so long fert dosing is a little bit higher.

 

[Tom Barr]

Hi Tom,
I do not have any vacuum pump and honestly, I have no idea how to remove mulm in a planted tank.

They are very cheap:
Search:

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...=X&ei=PRmsUOrlFKKMiAL1iYGwBg&ved=0CIgBEPMCMAg

Maybe 6 euros

Few aquarist are without one.

You can throttle the suction and leave ADA AS but pull out of the finer detritus/mulm that makes a cloudy dusty mess.

If you have things like HCC or whatever so, how will you ever clean the gravel without removing such plants?
So, my tank has never been cleaned since 4years and water is always crystal clear, but Mulm/detrius sticks deep between the gravel (not on top)
It seems many plants like this, some plants not.

Easily, I simply squeeze the drain tubing to allow the right amount of flow that leaves the HC in place, but pulls the mulm from below the plants, you can do this very easily and light enough so it does not do any uprooting.
I'll sometimes swirl the tube around to stir up more mulm and vacuuming it out.

Now, I buyed some new fish and my concerns are that any pathogenic bacterias may perhaps be left in the mulm.
So, my idea was too reduce+break down the mulm with any sludge remover and dosing additionally Anarex to get a "good-for-fish" tank back.

I'd just kill the bacteria with anti biotics and then clean the tank real good.
Aquariums do much better post mulm removal in my experience.

I'll sometimes deep vacuum the sediment also and uproot and then replant.
Maybe once every 6-12 months for some tanks, other tanks, never.