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Npk 20-20-20

Discussion in 'Estimative Index' started by benleeph, May 5, 2012.

  1. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    In my country, KNO3 and potassium phosphate were sold in big bags of 25kg and that would be costly to buy just to use a portion for the tank.

    Could I replaced it with powder fert of NPK 20-20-20? Any different?
     
  2. Snivi

    Snivi Junior Poster

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    Somme powder fert contain nh4+ so chose a good one
     
  3. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    What? Where? How?

    Hi,

    Maybe, possibly, it depends.
    :confused:

    Can you get the label, scanned or really good photo, perhaps a company website?

    Where are you?

    • NPK 20-20-20 can mean many different things.
      • In North America for instance it means 20% N, 8.8% P and 16.6% K, in most cases.
    • By telling us, where you live there may be others that have an answer already.

    Next, is the problem Snivi eludes too, how is it made?

    Is this some regional formulation that may by law require certain additives, metals are the worst.

    How patient are you?
    • Even some of the worst fertilizers can be made usable with some work as long as they do not contain pesticides or metals.

    Biollante
     
  4. PapstBenediktXVI

    PapstBenediktXVI Subscriber

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    Hi there

    if you google "ferts aquarium" the first page ships internationally for 18 $. Fortunatly the dollar is a bit weak at the moment so if you live in a country with a strong currency this might actually be a very cheap option.
    As for me, in Austria, this would've actuallly been cheaper than ordering it from a german online store, since the ferts are kinda cheap too. (never ordered though)

    I really hope this is not considered as advertisement, I really am in no way connected to this site; too dumb for that either :rolleyes:

    It's just an option to consider if you can't get it locally in smart quantities; though its bad for the environment :gw

    cheers
    papst

    edit: just came to my mind: just because they don't sell it under 25kgs doesn't mean that they won't sell it to you in smaller quantities. My former chemistry teacher used to need lots of costly chemicals in small quantities.

    In cases like yours he usually just contacts the producers with unbearable consistency and visits the companie's sites in person, trying to talk the managers into giving the chemicals to him. He ALWAYS gets what he wants -even for free sometimes- though he is banned from lots of companie's properties. You could try that out and be extremely annoying. Maybe pretend to teach chemistry too ;)
     
    #4 PapstBenediktXVI, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2012
  5. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    I am from Malaysia.
    The NPK and trace were from these companies. Pictures attached.

    The NPK does not state the compound used.

    Potassium nitrate could be used to make explosive but in my country it is not banned. However it was sold in 25kg as minimum order. I am not sure if I want you buy so much KNO3.

    Please advise.

    Sent from my HTC Android

    uploadfromtaptalk1339063146909.jpg

    uploadfromtaptalk1339063179258.jpg

    uploadfromtaptalk1339063203567.jpg

    uploadfromtaptalk1339063231753.jpg
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    You can buy the KNO3, and the others also in 25Kg, then sell 500 gram amounts to other hobbyists in your country. Or make and sell liquids etc.
    Look at it as business investment:greedy_dollars::greedy_dollars:
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    An Entrepreneur is Born

    Hi,

    I agree with Tom Barr, sell it…:highly_amused:

    Based on the photos, I cannot be sure, but it appears the metals are rather high, likely formulated for local soil conditions.

    I cannot see the source derived, almost certainly urea or some such, that will result in high total ammonia.

    Biollante
     
  8. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    So, I just discard this NPK 20-20-20 and get KNO3.

    KH2PO4 is harder to find here. Any alternative for me?

    I still can't find MgSO4 but MgS is available.

    As for the trace, can my present pack can be used?

    Sent from my HTC Android
     
  9. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Byproduct of Iron Production?

    Hi,

    Magnesium sulfate is usually available as the heptahydrate called Epsom salts, MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]•7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
    :)

    Epsom salt is (should be) available, at least in Kuala Lumpur at Tesco or Giant supermarkets. If not I am pretty sure you can order it online.
    :calm:

    I would not use Magnesium sulfide, MgS, though it seems it should end up being Magnesium sulfate, I am not smart enough to understand why MgS would be available.
    :eek:

    Magnesium sulfide is dangerous if kept in a damp environment (my recollection of Malaysia) as it gives off Hydrogen sulfide.
    :eek-new:

    If you add MgS to water, you end up with Hydrogen sulfide, H[SUB]2[/SUB]S (rotten egg smell) and Magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)[SUB]2[/SUB] (milk of Magnesia), which is insoluble.
    :disillusionment:
    [HR][/HR]
    Use Fleet Enema for phosphate; it is (or should be) readily available in Malaysia.
    :D


    [HR][/HR]
    Based on what I can see, a better picture or a scan of picture #4 would help, but I think you should be able to use the trace. The Copper is the thing that seems high, but used carefully, it should not be a problem.
    :cool:

    Biollante
     
  10. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    Thanks Biollante. I retake the picture for clearer view. You mentioned that I should use the trace carefully and I take it that I should not overdose, am I right?

    I will hunt for epsom salt. As for phosphate, I presume that Fleet enema is the brand. Any idea where to get it?

    Btw, I found another trace element of only iron 13.2%. Should I add that in for extra iron? Does it help since the trace I am using has 4% iron.

    Sent from my HTC Android

    uploadfromtaptalk1339304830596.jpg

    uploadfromtaptalk1339304863935.jpg
     
  11. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    I looked up for fleet enema and found out that it is Sodium biphosphate and sodium phosphate. Would that be introducing lots of sodium into the tank?

    Sent from my HTC Android
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    19g Monobasic sodium phosphate (NaH2PO4), 7g Dibasic sodium phosphate (Na2HPO4)

    Hi,

    Yes, I meant be careful with how much trace you use due to the copper,
    :) especially if you keep invertebrates.:eek:

    For most plants, extra iron is helpful, and since you are limited for the trace you can use.

    The type of chelate makes a difference but as long as it is chelated it will be okay.

    “Fleet” is the brand name (manufactured by CB Fleet), United Italian is the distributer and DeWitt is the marketer, it should be available in drug stores, unfortunately, I have not been in Malaysia since the 1990’s, but I seem to recall such things were available in the big supermarkets.
    :cool:

    Biollante
     
  13. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    A Little Electrolyte…

    Hi,

    Opps, missed a post……:eek:

    It does add some sodium, but not much in the quantities we use.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  14. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    I know United Italian. My friend was working inside before. Ok, will use the fleet enema. And get the extra iron. And try to find the other salt. Any side effect of overdosing iron?

    What is dosing procedure for fleet enema?

    Sent from my HTC Android
     
  15. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    I recall now. I took fleet enema before to empty my bowel before going for colonoscopy.

    How will my fishes react to that? I wonder.

    Sent from my HTC Android
     
  16. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Do Not Squirt the Enemas Up The Critters Butt & No Different Than Any PO4 Source

    Hi,

    In 100-liters of water a milliliter of Fleet Enemas adds about

    • 1.65-ppm phosphate (PO[SUB]4[/SUB]) and about
    • 0.5-ppm sodium (Na).
    {Note: I am aware there are popular calculators that return a lower value for phosphate from Fleet Enema, I suspect it is the difference between dose and total solution, I believe my arithmetic is correct.}

    Plants can be overdosed with iron, causing problems with chlorophyll, I think affecting it the plants ability to absorb energy. Most plants are good at controlling iron uptake by producing more or less chelate reductase enzyme.

    A good question for Tom Barr.
    :calm:

    I have seen iron toxicity in terrestrial plants, a symptom was necrosis, of the leaves, spots appeared on the leaves and really dark green, stunted top growth and root growth.

    Biollante
     
  17. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    I got my 25 kg KNO3 today. It was heavy. I did some digging and found out that the NPK 20-20-20 uses urea for it's nitrogen.

    I also gotten my fleet enema and iron edta 13.2%. Only cannot find MgSO4 yet. I dosed heavy on iron today....about 1 teaspoon for 90g.

    So I dose 1 ml x 3 times a week for my 300l to get 1.65ppm for phosphate. Am I correct?

    Will I get enough potassium by just dosing KNO3 alone?

    Sent from my HTC Android
     
  18. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    Finally....Got my epsom salt from guardian pharmacy. :)

    For my 80-90g.
    Dosing 1tsp KNO3 3 times a week.
    Dosing 2 tsp MgSO4 3 times a week.
    Dosing 3 ml Fleet Enema 3 times a week.
    Dosing 1/4 tsp TE Mix 3 times a week.
    Dosing 1/4 tsp chelated Fe 13.2% 3 times a week.
    Change 30% water once per week.

    Is this dosing procedure ok?

    Sent from my HTC Android
     
  19. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    25kg KNO3 is only a 10 year, 8 month, 1 week and a day or two supply for you...

    Hi,

    Most agricultural fertilizers use urea, think ammonia, for most, or all of the N, it is cheap.
    ;)

    The 1-ml Fleet, three times a week is good and assuming 300-liters actual water that will be 1.65-ppm.

    I would ease up on the iron, that is around 2-ppm.
    :eek:

    Dose your ¼ teaspoon TE mix three times a week that gives you about 0.5-ppm iron and dose ⅟[SUB]16[/SUB] teaspoon 13% DPTA Fe three times a week, that will give you a total of about 1-ppm iron.
    :cool:

    Biollante
     
  20. benleeph

    benleeph Junior Poster

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    Meaning.....I had been overdosing my phosphate by 3x and iron by more than a big margin.

    Ok....will listen to your advice as I am very new in this. Any side effect if I miss my water change as sometimes I will be outstation.

    Sent from my HTC Android
     
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