This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Novel method(?) to add airation at night, also, eductors

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Tom Barr, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    A new(?) and novel method(?) to add O2 at night without an air stone:

    Use a reducing tee off the return pipe and place a check valve to prevent back flow into a small air pump, place the air pump on the reverse cycle of the CO2(or a few minutes in between etc).

    This will add lots of air and O2 during the night, keep things clean without adding anything inside the aquarium.
    Cost is pretty cheap.

    Will allow more fish and reduce the CO2 when you do not need it for plant growth.

    I never liked the idea of adding air stones in the planted tank, another tube and thing to hide and more complex. But if I can add one without that and make it simple and more effective, it adds a bit of a buffer for the fish. I have some cube tanks which have high fish loads and current but the O2 levels had still been lower than the longer tanks due to turn with the much small relative surface area to water volume ratio.

    Also, if you have a lot of fish, loading etc this might help, others might not need this at all.


    Here's how I did it:

    Used this as a Tee:
    Aqua Medic Reducing Tee - 15 mm x Airline Tube, Plumbing Parts > CO2 > Saltwater Aquarium Supplies

    Added a Check valve to prevent backflow when the air pump was off:
    Aquarium Check Valve | Inline Check Valve

    Then you add an air pump like a small (no need for larger ones, you'll get plenty of aeration via the mixing) Whisper:

    Aquarium Air Pumps: Whisper Air Pumps

    Put you out about 10$, minus shipping.

    Add this to a timer to do the reverse as the CO2.
    This keeps the O2 @ 95% and above.

    No air stone, nothing inside the tank and pretty quiet.

    The other thing to consider if you buy a larger filter with high flow and you want to reduce the higher pressure and swaying is to use an eductor:

    MIXING EDUCTORS

    Much of the flow and mixing devices are from the reef side of the hobby, and I keep both so I can apply things from that hobby into this side.

    This is why I encourage folks to try non CO2 planted tanks, focus on fish, marine plants etc, not just CO2 enriched systems with a few small fish.
    You learn more from trying and doing more things in other parts of this hobby.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  2. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    88
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    Both of those ideas are very good, and desirable. But, I use a Rena Filstar XP3, which, according to the specs on the box, produces 63 inches of head pressure (2.3 psi) at about 3 gpm of flow. When I substract the height that the filter has to lift the water for my setup, 36 inches, that only gives 27 inches, about 1 psi, to drive the flow through the eductor, which is way below the low pressure eductor required pressure for the smallest one shown in that link. Doesn't this mean I can't use an eductor in my setup?

    The eductor idea would work very well with a powerhead that can produce enough head pressure to drive it, but the Koralia type powerhead accomplishes the same thing in a different way.

    The air pump installation would work very well for me, so I may try that soon, if I can persuade myself it will help.
     
  3. Paul S

    Paul S Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    3-way valve

    I use a 3-way valve that lets the air come on as soon as my CO2 is switched off by the timer. CO2 is supplied from a common header which this valve controls and air is supplied from my system air via a valve for regulation. I leave the bubble rate set for each tank as is. I found that by injecting a small amount of air at night I had to set the timer for 3 hrs. ahead of lights on, in order to bring my CO2 level up to optimum levels.

    take care.

    PS
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    As I really like fish and keeping plenty in planted tanks, and with high plant density, low surface areas is some tanks, I looked at adding some night time aeration systems. Most typical planted tanks generally do not require this, eg, all the sump filter tanks have not needed it(adding it will not hurt however).

    Where they are effective:
    Non stable tanks
    Higher fish loads, large species
    Higher feeding routines
    Large amounts of mulm formation
    Lower surface movements
    Small surface area to volume ratio(tall cube tanks).

    There's some notion that might suggest the micro bubbles stick to algae and help detach some and detritus from leaves.

    I hate air stones and hate them in tanks.
    I'd toyed with the idea of adding a solenoid to add O2 or other venturi suction methods that toggle between CO2 and air/)O2 based on the light time.

    This cost too much per tank realistically.
    But would give more control over O2 levels if you wanted them higher than ambient 100%.

    [​IMG]

    Then add this and finally a small air pump(you do not need a large one- even for a large tank, the air gets blasted as a froth).

    [​IMG]

    This in line version of an aeration system is cheap and effective.

    Plug it into a timer.
    Set about 30 minutes before and after the lights come on/go out.

    so air pump=> air line=> check valve => AM reducing Tee, spliced into Return line.

    Virtually no head/flow loss.

    Note, for smaller low flow canister filter systems, the AM reducer works fine as a CO2 pseudo venturi.

    You can modify it some also by building up some glue, epoxy etc, inside the pipe to create the general internal shape of a mazzei, without going all the way and losing a lot of pressure(trade off is that you do not get much draw, but we do not need much here using CO2).

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  5. detlef

    detlef Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    Less distracting in-tank equipment is always desirable since it doesn't need to be cleaned what is not there in the first place.

    For Amano junkies using lily pipes simply raise the outlet inline with or above the surface during light-out periods and you're done. Just don't forget to place it back down in the morning.

    Lifted lilies produce a lot of noise which is not what you want when you ty to sleep in the same room. Therefore I went with the airstone solution. Bubbles also help breaking the oil film at the surface. Bigger bubbles leaving clogged airstones do it even better!

    With more oxygen in the tank at night thanks to Tom's proposed method will there be less of a chance for the oil film to occur?

    Best regards,
    Detlef
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    And that's the issue and problem, there's no simple or cheap way to do that.
    I and most folks are terribly forgetful:eek:

    So you can either blow off too much CO2 or watch it every day and remember.
    I know myself too well:cool:


    I do not think the oil is the real issue, ......put another way:
    it's not from a lack of aeration/O2.

    Mechanical movement can break it up, but once you stop, the oil can and does return. I think cleaning the filter, make sure the CO2 and nutrients are in good shape and a few weeks of good care and routine mainteance takes care of the oil.

    Some wood decay can cause some oil formation(but after a few months, should reduce/stop). Once the ADA AS cycles well, then it should not produce any either.
    But we see this in sand only tanks also, but not as much.

    This in line method does work well and produces less noise than other methods, less electric/smaller air pump requirements and certainly cleaner.

    I already have existing Reducing Tee's for venturis and feeds for return pumps, so simply Teeing off those and adding a check valve, time and air pump takes care of things.

    No need for replumbing anything.

    As far as noise and the suction lily pipe, oh frigging god..........no way to sleep.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  7. Erk

    Erk Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    This sounds like a great idea! Im going to give it a shot and see how things go. I dont feel the airstone setup I currently use is really adding that much O2 into the tank at nighttime and the airstone does get clogged fairly often, plus as mentioned.....less equipment in the tank is always a good thing. Since I already use an airpump and have the check valve, all I need is the reducing tee and Im all set. Hopefully my discus will be happier with the increased O2.

    As Paul S said, it will be interesting to see how this effects the co2 in the morning. Currently my co2 comes on 1.5 hours before lights on, which seems to work, but I can see how this change may make you have to change to perhaps 3 hours or so

    Thanks for the tips:)
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    You can DIY the reducing tee by adding any old rigid tubing for air line anywhere in the system after the pump/filter.

    It does not need to be this and you can modify it to allow air and CO2 in when you wish.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. prjct92eh2

    prjct92eh2 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    Tom, you may be getting at this with your last post, but why not just use the same input into your plumbing for the O2 as you use for the CO2? What i envision is simply making a tee off the CO2 supply line into your reactor going to the air pump and adding a check valve before the air pump. As long as there is a check valve on both sides of the tee (O2 and CO2) then they shouldn't backflow into the others system. This seems a little easier than adding yet another input into your tank plumbing.

    Jimmy
     
  10. Mooner

    Mooner Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    7
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    This would be easy to implement on Tom's DIY external reactor due to the multiple points designed for CO2 injection and degassing. It would be very simple to add additional points even on a n existing unit. I will work on one of these reactors and see.
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    Yep, you got it.

    You only would need another point added to the line if.....you use a mazzei/ have positive suction pressure negating the check valves opening direction.

    Otherwise you can use the Reducing Tee entry point for both CO2 and Aeration.

    Just add an air line Tee upstream from the Reducing Tee, add check valves to both sides of the air line Tee going to the air pump and the other heading to CO2/solenoid.

    Add timers to the solenoid and to the air pump to cycle things when you need.

    Done.
    I mentioned the other as Mooner is eluding too, you can add or modify this simple method at many different points depending on your set up. So there's a lot of flexibility.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  12. fishandturtlejunkie

    fishandturtlejunkie Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    I like the idea of off hours O2 injection. Is there a solenoid valve that is in 1/4" you could use to T into the mazzei and run on a timer?
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    Yea, but the solenoid is 30-50$.
    Air pump: 5-9$.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  14. JJP2

    JJP2 Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    I'm trying this on my 125 gallon setup. I have a fluval fx5 and a small whisper air pump. I'm adding CO2 through a T before my UV and O2 after the UV on the run back to the tank. The problem I am having is that the air pump is not producing enough pressure to push air into the T. Do I just need a stronger air pump?

    Thank,

    John
     
  15. TheKillHaa

    TheKillHaa Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    my thought...
    it doesn't really matter if the air is on the exit or entrance pipes of the filter, the current of filtration will be reduced in any way. this is something to considerer. its like a mouffle clogged. imo, using the Co2 reactor, or Co2 system, will be more time-efective than using any part on the filter. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    If you use a check valve, the pressure should be one directional.
    So you might need a little larger air pump, I use the small tetra pumps, they have no issues for larger systems.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  17. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    Tom,

    What are your thoughts and or experiences concerning injecting oxygen into a 135gal or larger tank the exact same way as CO2 ... i.e... via pure gas w/victor regulator , while utilizing the existing CO2 equipment such as; bubble counter, reactor (AquaMedic reactor 1000)... ?

    What is the maximum DO in ppm that is safe for a community freshwater aquarium (8ppm , 10pmm, 20ppm) ... ?
     
  18. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    88
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    It is much, much easier to get CO2 to dissolve into water than to get oxygen to do so. I doubt that a CO2 reactor would be at all effective in dissolving oxygen into water.
     
  19. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    O2 is not very souble.
    I do add O2 to a client's tank. We just bubble it and add about 2 ppm extra 24/7, the O2 goes from about 8 to 11 or so.

    Do not go beyond about 150-160% saturation for as given temp. Higher temps= less O2, lower temps more O2 at equilibrium. This is true for all gases BTW, that is why the they boil and turn to gas if you go warmer :eek:

    Adding O2 is harder, cost more, is a lot more flammable and dangerous.
    We really do not need it and adding it does not justify the cost. Just aerate good during the night cycle is enough. Also all the aeration mist sticks to plants and other particulates and helps the filter the water and keeps the tank a bit clearer IME.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  20. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,657
    Likes Received:
    583
    Local Time:
    10:04 PM
    Yes, that's what I was meaning, if it's not clear.
    you add an airline Tee, one for CO2 and the other for air each with their own check valves then those lines come together and go to the => In line water flow Tee(the AM tee).

    As I has many in tank high flow powerheads, that have a air inlet already, I just add aeration into this and the air mist is diffused well. Alternatively, CO2 ands air come be added using the higher flow wave/propeller style powerheads if you use them and do not mind a pair of gas lines coming into the tank.

    the in line method gets rid of that, but now there's a simpole method to add in line or add them in tank or in sump.

    So all 3 filter methods are covered using Air at night and CO2 during the day.
    All you need is a timer for the air pump and a solenoid for the gas.

    I think there's a few benefits but mostly about the fish health. They do not need the high CO2 at night, this gets rid of it and adds O2 no matter what is going on.
    In well run planted tanks, it might reduce the O2 at night for the first hour or two. As well above 100% vs the air has built up via plant growth O2 release.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     

Share This Page