This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Non CO2 methods

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Tom Barr, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,691
    Likes Received:
    711
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    I liked the Onyx sand with a little leonardite at the bottom.

    Up to you and if you dose once a week anyway, it's not going to make as much difference what you use for the sediments, at least you will get more out of the sediment you have no matter what then.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  2. sunset

    sunset Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    What is KNO3 and KH2PO4. How much does it cost?
     
  3. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    93
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
  4. turbomkt

    turbomkt Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    You should also check with your local planted tank club! I'm pretty sure SFBAAPS, and I know SCAPE, carry macros. :)
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,691
    Likes Received:
    711
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    The new present owner of AquariumFertilizer.com is a local SFBAAPS member:)
    I think there are only he and perhaps 2 other original foundering member left that are somewhat active. Maybe 4-5 of us left.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. Saraja87

    Saraja87 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    This is an awesome thread, thank you for posting!

    I've been looking everywhere for information like this since I have a non-co2 injected tank and can't figure out what to dose. My aquarium is a heavily planted, heavily populated 110 tall with 260 watts of power compact lighting and a mulm/laterite/natural river clay/gravel substrate.

    I say it's heavily populated with 56 fish, 18 of which are 4+ inches but this may not be everyone's definition of a large population. I assume it's heavily planted because I can no longer find my substrate lol.

    What would you dose in a tank this size? Even with all my fish, my nitrates are still 0 and I'm not sure if my lighting would be considered high or low. I also don't usually do many water changes, if any.

    Specs:

    Nitrate: 0
    Nitrite: 0
    Ammonia: 0
    PH: 7.1-7.2
    GH: Unknown
    KH: Unknown

    Light Period: 10-12 hours
    Bulbs: 4 x 65 watt Sunpaq Dual Daylight 10,000/6,700
    Filtration: 2 x Fluval 404
    Chiller: 1/3 hp (I live in Los Angeles :p)

    Dosing:
    Flourish 2x week
    Root Tabs x 36
    I have excel but don't dose it because I have vals.
     
  7. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    93
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    You really have more light than is usually used without CO2 injection. For that size tank you have a high light intensity, unless that light fixture is raised above the tank a foot or so. If it is just a couple of inches from the water you would normally be using pressurized CO2 and EI dosing. But, if you are doing good, and don't have algae problems, I would be reluctant to change anything now.
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,691
    Likes Received:
    711
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    Hi, I posted some advice and some things to consider on TPT.
    You need to figure out what you want to do for CO2 and DIY and then chose a method here.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr

     
  9. Saraja87

    Saraja87 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    I'm gonna go with no CO2 for right now and go for a more natural tank. I might try pressurized in a year or so when my wallet has recovered and I have more time to play with it. For right now, is there a light dosing regime I could follow to help the plants and discourage the algae?
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,691
    Likes Received:
    711
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    Depends on how much biomass is there, any algae present, algae eaters etc.

    Some yes, but it depends.
    I really have not heard what all is actually in the tank etc.


    Tom Barr
     
  11. Saraja87

    Saraja87 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    Inhabitant List:

    - 6 Angels
    - 4 Blue spot/Opaline Gourami
    - 3 Congo Tetras
    - 2 Gold Barbs
    - 4 Rainbows (unknown type)
    - 8 Colombian Blue Tetras
    - 2 Bleeding Heart Tetras
    - 6 Rummy Nose Tetras
    - 2 False Upside Down Catfish
    - 2 Bushy Nose Plecos
    - 13 Marigold Platys
    - 1 Female Betta
    - 1 Florida Flagfish
    - 1 Leopard Danio
    - 1 White Tipped Tetra


    Plant List:

    ~ 6-7 Amazon Swords
    ~ 20 Crypt Balansae
    ~ 15 Jungle Val
    ~ 50 Americana Val
    ~ 20 Red Ludwigia
    ~ 15 Sunset Hygro
    ~ 75 E. Tenellus
    ~ 4 Red/Brown Crypt Wendtii
    ~ 2 Green Crypt Wendtii
    ~ 7 Anubias Nana
    ~ 1 Anubias (long narrow leaf)
    ~ 1 Anubias (BIG Plant, tall with large heart shaped leaves)
    ~ 2 clumps Java Moss
    ~ 1 Aponogeton Ulvaceous
    ~ 2 Crinium
    ~ 7 Bacopa

    Decoration:

    - 2 Large pieces of driftwood
    - 4 lava rocks
    - 1 pot for the Cories
    - 4 inches laterite/river clay/gravel

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Haha I have yet another green water outbreak! Is this a sign that I should be using pressurized co2?
     
  12. Holdingwine

    Holdingwine Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    I have naturally hard, high GH water out of my tap. Would it be alright to use Equilibrium as well or would I be better off with another trace element mix such as Flourish?
     
  13. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    93
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    Equilibrium is not a trace mix. It is a GH booster, which you don't need if you have a high GH. Other trace mixes are Flourish, Tropica Plant Nutrition Liquid, CSM+B, etc.
     
  14. rusticitas

    rusticitas Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    It may be that your light is high and you have a high fish load, their waste products -- basically ammonium (or is that ammonia? I keep getting them confused) -- is causing the algae/green water outbreak.

    Just an initial thought...
     
  15. imnlfn

    imnlfn Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    I've been keeping freshwater aquariums for six or seven years now, though I still consider myself an amateur.

    I'm in the process of setting up my first heavily-planted tank. I was getting totally frustrated trying to figure out a CO2 system for the least amount of hassle and money when I came across this thread, so I decided to see how appropriate for a beginner a non-CO2 set up really is.

    I've decided not to buy the 78W T5 light I was considering and will go with the 60W T8 light I found instead, which puts me right at 2W/gal (it's a 30 gal tank, 36" long). I'm going to have to drain the tank and scoop up the flourite in order to put down a layer of peat first (my plants should be here by FedEx on Friday, so I don't really have time to hunt down some leonardite), but that's really just as well since the flourite could probably use more rinsing than I gave it (cloudy water).

    I'm still not entirely clear about the specific steps I need to take, whether and what I need to be testing, whether I need to perform water changes, and whether and what I need to be adding, but I suppose I'll be able to gather that information over time.

    Anyway, thanks for the idea and I'll post updates about how it's going.

    -M
     
  16. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    93
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    A non-CO2 tank should not get regular large water changes, because tap water contains some CO2, possibly more than the equilibrium value in an open container of water. So, each time you replace a large quantity of water you are adding some CO2, which means the tank water CO2 concentration would be fluctuating. And, that can trigger some algae blooms. Just add enough water to replace evaporated water. Then, if you see a need, do a big change once or twice a year.

    Since you won't be adding large quantities of tap water periodically the GH in the tank can get too low, as the plants use the calcium and magnesium in the water. That means you will want to dose some GH booster periodically.

    Plant growth will be very slow, so the plants won't be using up nutrients very rapidly. This means you don't want to follow a EI type dosing scheme. Instead you will want to dose nutrients lightly once a week or every two weeks. And, if you have a big fish load you probably won't want to dose nitrates and phosphates at all, letting the fish waste and excess fish food provide those nutrients.

    Those are the things I recall about non-CO2 tanks. But, I'm sure there is more.
     
  17. imnlfn

    imnlfn Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    Thanks, Vaughn. It's easier for me to comprehend the information in small doses, especially without a great deal of explanation why thrown in, too, since much of that just tends to be beyond me at this point.

    I'm prepared for the slow plant growth and will appreciate not having to prune and cull on too frequent a basis. In fact, having had only artificial plants until now, any sort of growth should seem just short of miraculous...at least initially. ;)

    I won't have a very high fish load to start, only 15 to 20 total inches or so (depending on how one counts a 6" tall angel), so I'll have to look into potential fertilizers to use. I plan on adding more fish when the tank is more established, though, so maybe I will be able to taper those off some in the future.

    Thanks again for your help,
    -M
     
  18. imnlfn

    imnlfn Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    I put all the plants in the tank this past Saturday and all the fish on Sunday. At least all the fish seem to be doing OK so far: After only two days, the plants are already beginning to brown a little. I probably won't be able to get any KNO3 or KH2PO4 before this coming weekend, so if that's the problem, I hope they can hang on until then.

    I have one of those tags that's supposed to continuously show pH and it's currently registering 8+, which has me a bit worried, too. I'm going to use my test kit tonight to see if the tag is worthless or not.

    Here's the current contents and configuration of the tank:

    Fish
    1 angelfish (5")
    1 pleco (9")
    2 cories (2")
    1 swordtail (2")
    2 zebra danios (1.5")
    4 blackskirt tetras (1.5")
    1 platy (2")

    Plants
    8 Corkscrew Val
    8 Jungle Val
    3 Amazon Sword
    1 Red Rubin Sword
    2 Anacharis
    3 Cabomba
    3 Narrow-leaf Ludwigia
    5 Tennellus Chain Swords

    Equipment
    30 gallon long tank
    1" peat under 2.5" flourite substrate
    Whisper hang-on-back filter
    150W Stealth heater
    2x 30W T8 fluorescent lights
    non-CO2

    I don't know how long the Ludwigia will be around, since the pleco seems to think they're the tastiest treat he's had in some time. The Corkscrew Val and Anacharis were looking a little pathetic when I received them, so I don't have high hopes for them, either.

    Basically, I just wanted to post an update, though I do have a question: For what sort of time period should I be leaving my lights on? I usually have them on for about 14 hours a day, though I see people on here leaving them on for as few as 8 hours.

    Thanks!
    -M
     
  19. Roger21

    Roger21 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    QUOTE:

    "So a 20 gal using excel would get:
    2 w/gal light
    Dose 1/8 teaspoon KNO3 1-2x a week
    KH2PO4, 1/16th, 1-2x a week
    Traces, 2mls 2x a week
    SeaChem EQ 1/8th once a week
    50% weekly water change
    Dose 1.5-2x the rec dosing for Excel"

    Hello, I've been running a 20G non-co2 tank, like the one described above from an earlier post by Tom in this thread, for about a year now with very good results. (The only problem I seem to have is some of the plants, mainly the java ferns, are getting holes in the leaves.) My question is this: For my traces I have been using Seachem Flourish. I now notice that Seachem also makes Flourish TRACE. In general, should I be using this instead or should I stick with what has been working? (And would the TRACE product help more with the holes in the leaves, perhaps?) Thanks!
     
  20. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    93
    Local Time:
    6:45 AM
    Flourish is better than Flourish trace, because it is more concentrated. At least that is how I see it.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice