Newbee looking for help.

aprendiz

Junior Poster
Feb 25, 2010
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Hi from A to Z,
this is my first post cause i've been reading and i take the time and decided to mount the aquarium. my setup is 20 gallons,t5ho 6 lamps, plants are :higrofilia difformis, Anubias barteri, rotala nanjenshan,blixa japonica, and the right back don't know yet.

and i using fertz:
Aquarium Plants Step 1 Complete Nutrition
Aquarium Plants Step 2 Complete Nutrition




It contains all the nutrients needed by plants.

The new formulation facilitates fertilization. Step 1 contains more K and Mg Micronutrients. Combine the help of Magnesium at the dose of iron. Potassium is added important macronutrient in good quantities to cover the requirements. Step 2 contains the macronutrients NPK + Ca Each dose is increased to 2.5 ml 6ml N P, K and 3ml 5ml Ca provides nutrients safely and in appropriate quantities for easy maintenance of the planted aquarium. It also contains the micronutrient Cl which helps the metabolism of the plant.
as far to this day from the start (04/25/2010) i have problems with the filter an d i was unable from use it till yesterday so i buy new one, ok i do a cleaning from algae at the top of the water and run the power filter and cleaned very good but after that i do a test kit and my reading was
nitrate 0, nitrite 0, GH 300 ppm, KH 180 ppm and pH 8.4 i use this one

i use dose fertz step 1 micronutrients 5ml to 20 gallons






any help is welcome.
 

Gerryd

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Hi,

Are you using 6 bulbs on a 20 gal tank with no C02 injection?

If so, this is a major cause of your issues........

You have very high light, no c02, and the ferts you are using is most likely mostly water with a little bit of nutrients added...

I can elaborate later as I am on lunch, but you need to lower the light a lot...

Do you WANT to use c02? Or do you want a non-c02 tank?

What are your goals??

Please note that I deleted your duplicate post..........
 
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Tug

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I recognize those two bottles of stuff.

Listen to Gerry. You should be able to grow most any plant under 1.7 watts/gal of T5HO lighting if you add CO2. I find most plants can do well with only 1.2 watts/gal. For NO3 you should be dosing at least 3.45ppm a day if your plants are using it up as fast as they typically can when CO2 is added. Without CO2 you are going to need to find an alternative carbon source for your plants. Start by telling us what your goal is, do you want to add pressurized CO2? Here is a post by Tom Barr on non-CO2 methods, http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2817-Non-CO2-methods

Some other information that would help out would be soil type you are using.

Good luck, say hello to Mr Soto and welcome to the Barr report.
 

dutchy

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Yikes!! 6 x T5HO!!

+1 on what Gerry and Tug said. If I look at the leaves of the Hygrophila Polysperma Sunset (right at the back), those white leafvains tell me you have a BIG nutrient deficiency. Probably what you're dosing is not enough with that immense amount of light. You also wrote you measured 0 nitrate. Your nitrate should never be 0.

2 T5's are enough for this tank, maybe even 1. You will have to change things drastically.

regards,
dutchy
 

aprendiz

Junior Poster
Feb 25, 2010
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Gerryd;50316 said:
Hi,

Are you using 6 bulbs on a 20 gal tank with no C02 injection?

If so, this is a major cause of your issues........

You have very high light, no c02, and the ferts you are using is most likely mostly water with a little bit of nutrients added...

I can elaborate later as I am on lunch, but you need to lower the light a lot...

Do you WANT to use c02? Or do you want a non-c02 tank?

What are your goals??

Please note that I deleted your duplicate post..........

thanks for delete the duplicate post, well yes i'm using high light because i want to achieve a combination for red plants and yes i want to use CO2 but actually i have problems with the DIY cause it was filtering and i have to repair the cap bottles, and i read about Rex Grigg's dry fertz and i planing to use them i'm still reading because i'm thinking of using Estimated Index to look for results and my goals are a well balance aquarium that contains red plants like:
rotala macandra
cambomba furcata
rotala wallichii
ludwigia arcuata
nesaea sp.
alternanthera reineckii forma lilacina
Ludwigia Brevipes
Hemianthus micranthemoides
Pogostemon Stellata
by the way im using at the time seachem exel with the previous fertz that i mention before. my temperature that i didn't mention was 81.2F at 9.25pm yesterday and this morning drops to a 76F. the only living thing inside the tank are 4 snails and not fish at all. my plan is to mature the tank and later inroduce them at low amount.
 

aprendiz

Junior Poster
Feb 25, 2010
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Tug;50317 said:
Some other information that would help out would be soil type you are using.

Good luck, say hello to Mr Soto and welcome to the Barr report.

Contains a balanced mix of land and mineralized red clay, peat moss is also mineralized and bacteria.
 

dutchy

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Good if that's your goals. But you still don't need that much light, even with CO2. My tank is using 1,4 WPG and I can grow every plant I like. I have Pogostemon Stellata's and Alternathera's which grow 22 inch tall. Red plants neading much light is one of the biggest myths around.

So if your goal is a well balanced tank start using less light first.

regards,
dutchy
 

Tom Barr

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2 of the six bulbs is likely plenty.
Those fert liquids look like cough syrup:)

Buy some dry ferts from aquariumfertilizer.com for peanuts, then for 20-25$, you will have enough for 5 years.
Easier to help you as well since all KNO3 is KNO3 etc. You are not paying for water with a little bit of fertilizer added.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

aprendiz

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Feb 25, 2010
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Thanks Dutchy, well i'll make some changes to it for the rest of my concerns like lower my ph as i read most plants are better in acidic water so i need to lower mine cause is to high and i know that i don't have any fish for now but eventualy i will and theare some products that i can use like seachem acid buffer etc. but or adding acid to my desire ph but i dont what exactly to do... as for dosing fertz i'm still thinking about the arithmetic on dosing ppm (mg/L), some friends told me to dose only when i see deficiencies in plants that require nutrients i'm looking foward to find post in here that help's me out... jejeje so if you know one write me if you can i'll thank you in advance lol.!!
 

Gerryd

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Hi,

I would advise the following immediately if not sooner :)

1. Remove all but 1 of the T5 bulbs. 2 max. Keep the ones that provide the best spread over the tank, like the outer ones..
2. As Tom suggests, get some dry ferts online, and simply add a bit to water and dump in the tank. Also read the EI sticky thread on how to use them and determine how much to use. It is NOT an exact measurement, so no need for test kits really.
3. Search for threads that discuss what is needed for either DIY c02 or automatic c02. An auto c02 is NOT as much as you think if you look to e-bay and DIY...
4. Get yourself some new plants as I don't think anything but the anubias will come back (sorry!) AFTER you get the dry ferts.

Using low light and non-c02, low EI dosing, you can maintain many plants and get a basic understanding of things without c02.

Many folks have very nice tanks with no c02.....

Than do some research on providing c02 for your tank, many options to choose from..needle wheel powerhead, c02 ladder, disc diffusor, reactor, etc.

have patience as it takes time to learn and for the plants to adapt and grow to the conditions of the tank.

Remember that light is what drives plant growth and the subsequent need for nutrients such as c02.

You are driving the plants to grow at a high rate, but not providing the c02 to fuel that growth... c02 is the main plant nutrient and all the macro and micro dosing in the world is not going to change that fact...

You can always add more light later as the c02 kicks in and you gain experience and want more/faster plant growth.

With that comes more trimming....

Good luck.
 
B

Brian20

Guest
Wait, wait, he still not used the Step 2 thats why his NO3 is 0. The tank is new, I agree to start using STEP 2 and dose 2x. Really the ferts are almost 50% nutrient and 50% water, are better than most comercial Ferts, he also knows that Dry ferts are better, still like I said the liquid ferts are easy to dose. They will work (Im using it too in my 5G) the downside is that they not will last a lot like dry ferts. He not have CO2 because have a problem with it but he will use. I worry more for that pH and kH.

Greeting to all my friends.
 

dutchy

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I never understand why people are recommended to get a BIG deficiency first. Because the tank is new? I dosed ferts from the day I put plants in the tank and they grew like crazy.

If he's going to start using CO2 the pH problem will be solved. Anyway for now part of his high pH could be caused by that much light. With that much light, "natural" Co2 will be depleted in a very short time. This will cause the pH to rise. So with less light he could have a lower pH.

regards,
dutchy
 

Tug

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Get Your CO2 Right.

Your pH will naturally drop and CO2 will bring it down to what your plants will be comfortable with. As for red pigmentation and light, it is more about having non-limiting CO2. The lower the light source, the less demand for CO2 and other nutrients.
Tom Barr;49393 said:
Likely most issues revolve around CO2........Carbon is the main part of the red coloration pigments (look it up). Low CO2=> low production of pigments and general growth, stunted tips etc).

Cheers,
 
B

Brian20

Guest
Yeah yeah, we have a few problem the aquarium we planned to have a lot of plants from the begining but a problem with a package (dead plants) we dont have a lot to make the scape. Also the CO2 (yeast) have a few problems (sealing). But I know that he will be in good way soon :D
 

aprendiz

Junior Poster
Feb 25, 2010
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Hello friends
I bought dried fertilizer to start my IE so now i'm going investigate my results ;);)...
 

Tug

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Looking Good

I wish the people I get my fertilizers from would appreciate how professional these labels look. I can tell just by looking at them they are packaged by Brian, that he put some thought into clearly explaining how they are used and that he cares about his customer. We should never judge a book by it's cover but that is what we do.

On a side note - here is a recipe that lasts me for over 25 days at a time. It requires a 1 gallon container as well as the other stuff one needs to make a reactor and should get your fermentation to 8 psi of pressure. This is made with Champagne yeast which has a tolerance for higher sugar and alcohol levels. Other yeast strains often work best with less sugar but have shorter fermentations. They get drunk and pass out. :D

3.5L water
4 cups (1L) sugar
1mL pH stabilizer (pH ~5.2)
1/4 tsp Champagne yeast
1/16 tsp Fermaid K (1g/gal)

Rehydrate and add Fermaid K after 1/3 sugar depletion (end of exponential growth and the beginning of the stationary phase) or after one weeks time.

Fermaid K, is a blended yeast nutrient containing, Magnesium Sulfate, Inactive Yeast, Thiamine, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium, vitamin B5 (Pantothenate) and DAP (Diammonium phosphate).
☯​
Pantothenate helps to keep open important metabolic pathways to dramatically reduce the production of H2S and Magnesium improves yeast alcohol tolerance.

Lighting and CO2 are key to any investigation. Good luck.
 

aprendiz

Junior Poster
Feb 25, 2010
13
0
1
Tug;50482 said:
I wish the people I get my fertilizers from would appreciate how professional these labels look. I can tell just by looking at them they are packaged by Brian, that he put some thought into clearly explaining how they are used and that he cares about his customer. We should never judge a book by it's cover but that is what we do.

On a side note - here is a recipe that lasts me for over 25 days at a time. It requires a 1 gallon container as well as the other stuff one needs to make a reactor and should get your fermentation to 8 psi of pressure. This is made with Champagne yeast which has a tolerance for higher sugar and alcohol levels. Other yeast strains often work best with less sugar but have shorter fermentations. They get drunk and pass out. :D



Fermaid K, is a blended yeast nutrient containing, Magnesium Sulfate, Inactive Yeast, Thiamine, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium, vitamin B5 (Pantothenate) and DAP (Diammonium phosphate).
☯​
Pantothenate helps to keep open important metabolic pathways to dramatically reduce the production of H2S and Magnesium improves yeast alcohol tolerance.

Lighting and CO2 are key to any investigation. Good luck.

hey that's a nice recipe and looks very interesting to try...
right now I am writing the EI conversions to grams can someone tell me if I am corect with this.
20-40 Gallon Aquariums
+/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week (1.25g)
+/- 1/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (0.3g)
+/- 1/2 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only) (2.5g)
+/- 1/16 tsp (5ml) Trace Elements 3x a week (0.3g)
50% weekly water (10gal)
I am thinking of dispensing directly into the tank or dissolve a bit in the tank water and put everything inside.
 

aprendiz

Junior Poster
Feb 25, 2010
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Tug;50498 said:
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6348-Fertilator-Conversion-Factors
268.75 mg of Plantex CSM+B (6.53%) ~ 1/16 tsp

Maybe someone will step in and explain moisture issues and such, but on average what you are working with is correct and would be used in a heavily planted, CO2 enriched tank under high levels of light. What did you decide to do about your lighting?

Hi Tug, thanks for this explanation I have not done my homework yet, but can you explain me more about those calculations. i've been trying figuring out but i'm still not in the track. about my lighting i'm don't doing anything yet so far because if high light means the need of more nutrients i think they will grow well if i'm dosing with EI. I know that in this forum have a lot of people with less light and good results but I rather deal with them because i'm not going to throw them aside...
 

Tug

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It's all good.

OK, are you able to hang the lights above the tank? That would be an option, you can have "Whatever You Like".;) I suggest starting with mid-light (one T5HO is more then enough) and work your way towards high-light (two T5HO lights is more then enough). And, 50% water changes twice a week will keep down the algae and it will add more CO2 to the tank with each water change. Do this until your CO2 reactor is working properly.


Explain what? Explain the calculations, I wish I could explain them. The calculations come from off of APC's The Fertilator. Focus on your CO2 and reduce your lighting as mentioned earlier.
Gerryd;50332 said:
You are driving the plants to grow at a high rate, but not providing the c02 to fuel that growth... c02 is the main plant nutrient and all the macro and micro dosing in the world is not going to change that fact...

You can always add more light later as the c02 kicks in and you gain experience and want more/faster plant growth.

10-20 gallon dose
0.625g KNO3 ~ 5ppm NO3
0.15g KH2PO4 ~ 1.4ppm PO4
0.15g KH2PO4 ~ 0.15ppm Fe

20-40 gallon dose
1.25g KNO3 ~ 10ppm NO3
0.3g KH2PO4 ~ 2.8ppm PO4
0.3g CSM+B ~ 0.3PPM Fe

Some typical uptake rates at high light and CO2 levels per day (24 hours):

Originally Posted by Admin View Post
NO3 1-4ppm
NH4 0.1-0.6ppm (do not dose NH4!It will cause algae)
PO4 0.2-0.6ppm

These rates do not assume that you will show deficiencies if you dose less than this, but adding more than these rates will not help further plant health.
This is a point that the aquarist needs to understand. Basically, it is extremely unlikely your plants will ever need more than these rates even at high light intensities. Adding enough nutrients to prevent anything from becoming deficient is the goal, not precise uptake and growth requirements.

I hope this helps.
 
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