New To Fertilizing. All Advice/Help Welcome.

[Trickerie]

Hey All,

I recently got a pressurized co2 system and ferts for my 25 gallon planted tank. I have been using PPS Pro daily dosing, but have run into a few issues with some plants.

Here's an overall shot of the tank. Its my first tank and I know it sucks lol:

Quick Stats:
Tank: 25G (24x13x19)
Substrate: Soil with Cap
Lighting: Finnex Ray 2 DD (7000k/10000k LED's) 18" from substrate to fixture
Micro Mix: Millers
Ammonia: 1ppm (never seems to go below this on ANY of my tanks?)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 30ppm
PH: Tap(7.5), Tank(6.6 with co2)
KH: 3d
GH: 5d
Temp: 78-82 F


First, I had creeping jenny which was growing taller, but had melty spots on all of its bottom leaves.

Next, my micro swords are curling and browning. may even have slight diatom coating, but I'm not sure. Some of the brown looks "caked" on and rubs off.

My L Repens has some pretty red top leaves, but the bottom leaves are discolored and growing a lot of GSA:

Lastly, I was told this is normal, but the new growth from my swords have reddish/dark veins. They are supposed to be normal growth, though?

As you can see, my two GIANT swords. They started off the size of my hand, and have now grown to epic proportions in a matter of months. Could they be draining some nutrient from the water and not leaving enough for other plants, since I'm using PPS Pro and not EI? Should I switch to EI? I was thinking of dosing more K, as I've read you can't really overdose K, and its something plants use a lot of. Should I?


One other issue. I did a phosphate test today, and had very, very high levels. Around 9-10ppm.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide. I'm loving this hobby so far, but ferts are confusing :|

 

[Biollante]

Fertz Are As Complicated as You Want Them

Hi,

Welcome!

Perhaps you could tell us what you are dosing and doing rather than saying PPS or EI.

No, I do not think that is normal, if it is the same lady that told you they pick on you because you are special, that would be your Mom and she doesn’t know anything about planted aquariums either.:eek-new:

You are correct more Potassium probably won’t hurt anything, but let us not do things just to do something, we all get confused.

As the fish appear to be living, I doubt your ammonia levels is that high, but I was wrong one time before, though that was a case where I thought I had made a mistake, which was obviously wrong.:highly_amused:

To confirm ammonia test take a sample of aquarium water and add 9 times as much distilled water and test. For example, take 1-teaspoon (5-ml) of aquarium water and add 3-tablespoons (45-ml) of distilled water, mix and test.

Biollante

 

[Trickerie]

Sorry for any confusion, here is my exact dosing regimen:

1L Bottle #1:

80g of Millers Micro Plex

1L Bottle #2:

K2SO4: 60g
KNO3: 65g
KH2PO4: 7g
MgSO4: 41g

Daily dosage: 1/2 tsp of each solution

I can't get a great photo of the sword leave with my camera, because it doesn't take enough detail. However, I found a photo with the exact symptoms, though the middle vein seems to be slightly darker on mine (not whitish):

These, however, are apparent on some older leaves as well.

 

[Biollante]

Double Ion Replacement Reaction

Hi,

Do notice any hard little crusty things in bottle #2?

You should it is magnesium phosphate and is essentially insoluble, (0.0002588-gram/100-ml of water).:gw

Perhaps part of the problem is a lack of Magnesium and Phosphorous.

I will look at the rest later if someone else hasn’t.

Biollante

 

[Trickerie]

Actually, yes, I did notice this. There are a lot of small blackish specks all over the bottom of the container. What should I do?

 

[Biollante]

My Bad! Ignore below, Sorry


Thanks Tug apparent mis-calculating on my part, also explains why I did not see it the first time.

My original post below with bold the original header. Sorry for the screw-up.

---

Hi,
Stop Dosing, Water Changes Now!
If you want extra Magnesium, add Epsom salt to bottle #1 that already contains Magnesium.

The blackish specs are probably fungus or bacteria, what I was looking for would be more like white crystals...

• Do not worry we will work out another formula!:calm:

Stop dosing!:gw I missed the 25-gallon part or what passes for my brain was not engaged.

You are poisoning your aquarium; the trace you are using contains metals that are toxic at the levels you are dosing.:eek-new:

Thankfully, the metals are chelated but you are dosing almost 27-ppm Copper per day! At 100 parts per million, iron!:disillusionment:

Boron, toxic stuff at 12.5-ppm per day.

Large water changes immediately, 80 or 90% each day for three days.

I will work out a dosing schedule for you.:calm:

Do you have a water report to share?

Can you tell us where you live, or pm me if you do not want it shared publicly.

Biollante

 

[Tug]

Bio, I trust your long handed math but in this case I think something is off.

Adding 80 grams of Millers MicroPlex/distilled water to a 1L bottle and dosing 2.5mL (1/2 teaspoon) into a 25 gallon tank provides 0.08ppm of Fe, 0.03ppm of Cu, etc. according to wet's calculator. Here is the list of ingredients as they appear on his calculator.

Miller's MicroPlex:
**Fe: 0.04
**Mn: 0.04
**Mg: 0.0543
**Zn: 0.014
**Mo: 0.001
**B: 0.005
**Co: 0.0005
**Cu: 0.015

As for the 1L bottle #2 - same 2.5mL dose provides;

• K2SO4: 60g (excessive?) Most likely you would be fine with

 

[Biollante]

My Bad!

Hi,

Opps I messed up, my apologies,:gw I was kind of hoping someone else would step in…

A good thing the floor walkers are on the ball...:highly_amused:

Thanks Tug.

Biollante

 

[Trickerie]

Heres the PPS Pro site that I got all of my info from (official site?):

https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro

I used the spreadsheet to calculate what to add, so I just went with what it said. I also added the ferts to the bottle based on what the site said. I'm not sure how some of the ferts can be considered low, as the PPS Pro website told me to put that much!

As for the bubbles on the left, thats my old sponge filter which is now turned off, it was only on to seed my canister, a CF-300.

My diffuser is a glass diffuser, which you can see on the bottom right corner near the substrate, blue tubing.

I have two koralia nano 240's in the tank, one on the left, pointing up for surface agitation, and one on the right pointing down for circulation to the substrate. My spray bar is vertical across the back right hand corner, spraying towards the front the entire height of the tank, in the direction of the koralia pointing down.

 

[Tug]

Thank you for the link. I suppose it is a matter of semantics but their recommended doses are the minimum levels they say plants need in a dose plus fish waste. Tom has found that PO4 demand can range from any were between 0.2-0.6ppm, NO3 1-4ppm but I'll change the op. Thank you.


Taking a look at their FAQ page. Two things bother me.

One is their recommendation to provide more nutrients if needed by adding more fish food.
Why not just increase the dose? Adding more organics is a poor solution to the problem, IMHO.

The other is their statement that relatively high levels of PO4 are toxic.
Has PO4 ever been proven to have a direct relationship to fish mortality?


I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Trickerie]

Hey Tug, thanks for your help. I think I'm just going to switch to EI, I've already ordered some of the small dosing spoons anyways. It just seems like a more complete and easy way to ensure your plants have all the nutrients they need. I thought the PPS Pro solutions would be easier, but they seem lacking. However, I'll keep using those for my lesser planted tanks.

So, now I'll need some suggestions on EI dosing.

Which regimen should I follow, 10-20, or 20-40? I have a 25g tank, with 24*13*3 of substrate, which would put me at 21g of water fully filled. So, I'm guessing the 20-40.
Is dry better/easier than liquid?
Since I'm using Millers and not Plantex, should I add epsom salt as well? Is there anything else I should dose? GH Booster at water change?
Is my lighting sufficient for EI? Should I upgrade to t5HO's?

Thanks again guys

 

[Tug]

It depends largely upon the plants requirements and the lighting/CO2 - watch the plants for stunting. I use wets nutrient calculator (link is in my signature) to determine correct EI doses for a more narrow range. It will provide you with the dry dose but can help you to make a solution. For smaller tanks this is often easier and you have the bottles already.

Since I'm using Millers and not Plantex, should I add epsom salt as well? Is there anything else I should dose? GH Booster at water change?

Probably not. Ca levels above 10ppm and Mg levels above 3ppm are acceptable. So, it depends on what you start with from your tap and your goals. I use Plantex so I add a little Mg.

Is my lighting sufficient for EI? Should I upgrade to t5HO's?

It's hard to say if a light is sufficient visually and I am not familiar with the Finnex Ray LEDs. Here is a chart that provides PAR for most light sources. Unfortunately LED lighting isn't on the chart but the company might provide a T5 equivalent.

30-50micromol along the sediment is ample light for ANY species.

Diagram courtesy of VaughnH/Hoppy

The good news is that with 30ppm of CO2 the "high light" plants are able to use less light and get by. So focus on CO2 and nutrients.

CO2 and Light Stimulate Growth, - Tropica
http://www.tropica.com/en/tropica-abc/basic-knowledge/co2-and-light.aspx

 

[Trickerie]

Thanks again Tug. I think I will go with the 20-40g dosing to start, and watch what happens for a few weeks. I frequent TPT where Hoppy is a regular and have seen that chart many times. Here's a chart straight from Finnex:

From substrate to fixture is about 18", however, I use a glass top and I'm sure I lose some PAR because of it.