I could use some help from those who have more experence than I do. I just got into planted tanks and was working with aquarum plants.com, not a good place. Sold me more lights than I need , came across as someone who suppose to know about planted tanks. Said he would do an aquascape. Well the plants did not arrive when they were suppose to, he has lied to me sereval times and I called he on thses issues and he got mad and would not email me the aquascape. So I could use some help in where to plant these plants. They came today and I will list what they are. Vals, contortion (vallisneris asiatica), Sword Indian Red, Sword Klenier Bar, Sword Red Rubin,Bolbtus heudelotii, Rotala macrandra, Rotala Wallichii, Didiplis diandra,Nesaea pedicellata golden, Nesaea Red, Mayaca fluviatillis, Ludwigia peruensis, Limnophila huppuroides, and Hygrophila balsamica. If anyone would other thier help or tell me where I might find more info. Have been on some sites that talk about these plants but not much on placment. Please stay away from this place I bought my stuff from
new plants
- Thread starter bikerdude
- Start date
until folks with better experience answerjust put the plants (cleaned-up) in the water or if Biollante is reading, in a seperate tank or tub (of aquarium water with some circulation).
i know you have posted elsewhere but it always helps to include tank specs and what you want.
substrate info included and rocks or driftwood, pictures help here don't worry too much about quality of pics.
also what fish you have or plan on helps also.
i know you have posted elsewhere but it always helps to include tank specs and what you want.
substrate info included and rocks or driftwood, pictures help here don't worry too much about quality of pics.
also what fish you have or plan on helps also.
175 gal. co2 8 t5 39 watts each. community fish tetras, angles, 2 ghostknife killies ect. medium load. 2 ocean clear w 550gph pump, 2 magnum 350's. hydro koralia 1 for circulations anding another soon a #3. dry ferts.2 large rocks large drifrwood. I have pics if someone will tell me how to post them, never done it before. substrate is from aquarium plants simular to sms.
Great!
That is great, I actually think we learn more by doing!
As time goes by (I suddenly want to watch Casablanca) you will figure things to do differently, give it some time.
I should have mentioned the golden mean and not 'centering', but not to worry doing is better than not doing.
Stay on top of the CO2 and fertz, CO2 is the lesson most of us learn the hard way. The lighting seems good to me, the high side, but quite manageable.
That is great, I actually think we learn more by doing!
As time goes by (I suddenly want to watch Casablanca) you will figure things to do differently, give it some time.
I should have mentioned the golden mean and not 'centering', but not to worry doing is better than not doing.
Stay on top of the CO2 and fertz, CO2 is the lesson most of us learn the hard way. The lighting seems good to me, the high side, but quite manageable.
Hi,
Only the bolbitus or the HC can really do well attached to rocks and things. I would plant ALL stems in the substrate and don't forget to plants EACH stem or at most one or two of the 'frilly' types together. I know they look nice bunched, but will be too compact for good growth. As they get older and are pruned, they will take shape and look much nicer...
Looks good.
Only the bolbitus or the HC can really do well attached to rocks and things. I would plant ALL stems in the substrate and don't forget to plants EACH stem or at most one or two of the 'frilly' types together. I know they look nice bunched, but will be too compact for good growth. As they get older and are pruned, they will take shape and look much nicer...
Looks good.
Gerry, how do you get each stem to stay in the substrate. I'm still reading about EI dosing and have my dry fert on hand, but not sure on mixing, quanties to water. went to apc about the fertilator not sure how to use it. Also went to Chuck Gadds calculator. This is confusing.
Hi,
Initial planting and trimming can take some time but is worth it....
1. Take each bunch of plants and rinse under gentle running water while separating the stems in the bunch. This washes off any loose stems and leaves and some pests.
2. Remove the lower nodes of leaves and discard any bad stems or ends that are rotting. You want nice fresh strong BARE stems to root.
3. Poke a finger in the substrate and then place one or two stems in each hole and gently push substrate around the stem. Make sure the stem is in the substrate at least an inch or more....that is why we remove the lower leaves to have bare stems in the substrate so the leaves will not rot.
4. Place each set of stems a bit apart based on eventual growth patterns. Usually the taller stems in back sloping towards the front, or the taller in the middle surrounded by smaller ones..
Or just trim them all the same length to start....
Make the dosing of ferts easy to start with and ignore the ppm levels if you want. Don't make it more complex than necessary. I have read the calculators, but have never used them.
Since our tanks are the same size more or less, here is my dosing and maintenance routine:
3 times per week I take 2-3 teaspoons of KNO3 and mix it in a large cup of water to dissolve it. I than just dump the cup of water in the tank.
3 times per week I take 2 teaspoons of K2S04 and mix it the same way.
These are the MACRO ferts and they are dosed on Sun, Tues, and Thursday.
3 times per week I take 30 mls of Tropica plant nutrition and just dump it in the tank.
These are the MICRO ferts and are dosed on Mon, Wed, and Fri.
Saturday is look at the tank day
Sunday I change about 70-80% of the water in the tank, clean glass, trim, etc. I can add gh booster and excel at this time based on what I am doing....
DOSE AFTER THE WATER CHANGE
That is it basically. I do not measure or care about the ppm in my tank of each nutrient. I do adjust by 1/4-1/2 tsp as needed.
I use the health of the plants, fish, and overall tank conditions to let me know if something is off but within that range.
Or sometimes I dose daily to experiment and simply add all dosing and divide by 7 to get the daily dose..
I dose heavier as I remove a lot of water weekly and my tank is well planted...
I now use much lower light levels to control growth and prune less.
Hope this helps.
Initial planting and trimming can take some time but is worth it....
1. Take each bunch of plants and rinse under gentle running water while separating the stems in the bunch. This washes off any loose stems and leaves and some pests.
2. Remove the lower nodes of leaves and discard any bad stems or ends that are rotting. You want nice fresh strong BARE stems to root.
3. Poke a finger in the substrate and then place one or two stems in each hole and gently push substrate around the stem. Make sure the stem is in the substrate at least an inch or more....that is why we remove the lower leaves to have bare stems in the substrate so the leaves will not rot.
4. Place each set of stems a bit apart based on eventual growth patterns. Usually the taller stems in back sloping towards the front, or the taller in the middle surrounded by smaller ones..
Or just trim them all the same length to start....
Make the dosing of ferts easy to start with and ignore the ppm levels if you want. Don't make it more complex than necessary. I have read the calculators, but have never used them.
Since our tanks are the same size more or less, here is my dosing and maintenance routine:
3 times per week I take 2-3 teaspoons of KNO3 and mix it in a large cup of water to dissolve it. I than just dump the cup of water in the tank.
3 times per week I take 2 teaspoons of K2S04 and mix it the same way.
These are the MACRO ferts and they are dosed on Sun, Tues, and Thursday.
3 times per week I take 30 mls of Tropica plant nutrition and just dump it in the tank.
These are the MICRO ferts and are dosed on Mon, Wed, and Fri.
Saturday is look at the tank day
Sunday I change about 70-80% of the water in the tank, clean glass, trim, etc. I can add gh booster and excel at this time based on what I am doing....
DOSE AFTER THE WATER CHANGE
That is it basically. I do not measure or care about the ppm in my tank of each nutrient. I do adjust by 1/4-1/2 tsp as needed.
I use the health of the plants, fish, and overall tank conditions to let me know if something is off but within that range.
Or sometimes I dose daily to experiment and simply add all dosing and divide by 7 to get the daily dose..
I dose heavier as I remove a lot of water weekly and my tank is well planted...
I now use much lower light levels to control growth and prune less.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by a moderator:
ok, I'm starting to get this. I'm using the CSM+B for the MICRO ferts used 2 tsp today, does that seem right. Are you using RO water? Because that is what I use and a 70-80% water change would be difficult. Do you take the water level all the way down and then fill it up?
Hi,
Sorry I have no experience with CSMB so cannot help.
No RO water for me.
Water change steps:
1. Take spare 500 gph mag drive pump attached to 20' of flex clear hose.
2. Insert end of hose in sink and pump in tank and turn on pump.
3. Takes 20-30 mins or so to drain based on how much you remove. Just use tape to mark your level..
Use this time to trim and clean.
Remove pump and hose when done.
1. Dose with Prime or other for entire tank volume.
2. Attach a different clear flex hose to sink and other end to tank.
3. Use cold tap (FL not an issue for temp this way) and use to fill. You may have to mix the tap temp....
4. Takes 20-30 mins to fill so more maintenance time.
Remove hose and you are done. NO BUCKETS or lugging them around
Now I dose my weekly Excel or gh booster if I am using them. Than I dose heavy macros (more than in dosings later in the week) and micros (4 hrs later)...
Pretty easy to do and plenty of time to maintain the NC and everything.
RO is not needed IMO unless needed for specific FISH species. I don't know that RO is needed for plants, but is my opinion only.
Hope this helps.
Sorry I have no experience with CSMB so cannot help.
No RO water for me.
Water change steps:
1. Take spare 500 gph mag drive pump attached to 20' of flex clear hose.
2. Insert end of hose in sink and pump in tank and turn on pump.
3. Takes 20-30 mins or so to drain based on how much you remove. Just use tape to mark your level..
Use this time to trim and clean.
Remove pump and hose when done.
1. Dose with Prime or other for entire tank volume.
2. Attach a different clear flex hose to sink and other end to tank.
3. Use cold tap (FL not an issue for temp this way) and use to fill. You may have to mix the tap temp....
4. Takes 20-30 mins to fill so more maintenance time.
Remove hose and you are done. NO BUCKETS or lugging them around
Now I dose my weekly Excel or gh booster if I am using them. Than I dose heavy macros (more than in dosings later in the week) and micros (4 hrs later)...
Pretty easy to do and plenty of time to maintain the NC and everything.
RO is not needed IMO unless needed for specific FISH species. I don't know that RO is needed for plants, but is my opinion only.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nice Tank
Hi,
Nice tank!
I affirm everything Gerry says, see notes below.
You have the CSM+B now if you have or can get some Epsom Salt, Fleet Enema (the Wal-Mart/Walgreen knock offs arr okay and some KNO3, Potassium nitrate, Saltpeter, Sodium nitrate, doesn't matter what you call it, it is cheap.
Three times a week dose two teaspoons of KNO3 and Epsom Salt, half-a-teaspoon of Fleet Enema.
On the off days, three times a week dose two teaspoons of CSM+B.
That will get you started.
Biollante
(Note1:This should not be seen as an effort to make me look smarter by agreeing with Gerry.)
(Note2: Agreeing with Gerry is a great way to appear smarter.)
Hi,
Nice tank!
I affirm everything Gerry says, see notes below.
You have the CSM+B now if you have or can get some Epsom Salt, Fleet Enema (the Wal-Mart/Walgreen knock offs arr okay and some KNO3, Potassium nitrate, Saltpeter, Sodium nitrate, doesn't matter what you call it, it is cheap.
Three times a week dose two teaspoons of KNO3 and Epsom Salt, half-a-teaspoon of Fleet Enema.
On the off days, three times a week dose two teaspoons of CSM+B.
That will get you started.
Biollante
(Note1:This should not be seen as an effort to make me look smarter by agreeing with Gerry.)
(Note2: Agreeing with Gerry is a great way to appear smarter.)
Hello all,
I know nothing, nothing about RO water. Except that with RO you need to replace some KH as well as GH. At least that's my limited understanding. What Gary is implying, as a necessary consequence of all those water changes, you might give tap water a try. I agree, even knowing nothing about the water coming from your tap. There are nutrients in tap water not in CSM+B precisely because sufficient amounts are present in most tap water. Q. Are you replacing the minerals removed by RO?
I even might add a little more phosphate given the amount of N & K being dosed and seeing as it's RO water.
I know nothing, nothing about RO water. Except that with RO you need to replace some KH as well as GH. At least that's my limited understanding. What Gary is implying, as a necessary consequence of all those water changes, you might give tap water a try. I agree, even knowing nothing about the water coming from your tap. There are nutrients in tap water not in CSM+B precisely because sufficient amounts are present in most tap water. Q. Are you replacing the minerals removed by RO?
Given doses for CSM+B are fairly broad, as long as they aren't limiting plant growth. There is nothing wrong with adding 2 tsp of plantex, but for a 175 Gallon tank 3/4 tsp CSM-B Plantex 3x a week should cover most high light/CO2 scenarios. Adjust up or down after watching your plants and your CO2 levels. But, two teaspoons is perfectly fine. It will provide plenty of trace and you can adjust it down until just before the plants show signs of deficiency. As your levels of CO2 become more stable and non-limiting you might need to increase your doses all around.bikerdude;45254 said:
Most indubitably.Biollante;45258 said:
I even might add a little more phosphate given the amount of N & K being dosed and seeing as it's RO water.
Last edited by a moderator:
Liebig's Law of the Minimum
Hi All,
To be fair I made (and still make) some assumptions, not being able to see for myself, I am limited to what is stated. I am with Gerry {Note 1,2} on the tap water, unless there is some major overriding reason use tap water or mix tap and RO. Using RO of course add GH booster and some (small amount of) baking soda.
Tug is very bright bulb and from what I can tell a very decent human being. The key here as Tug points out is not to be limiting in Liebig's Law of the Minimum, sense. Cute graphic http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/FertCalc_files/liebigs_law.htm.
Many who lacking experience rely on calculators and fancy arithmetic that include some rather outdated notion of levels of various nutrients. Traditional amounts of Plantex CSM+B was to target 0.1 ppm iron. This is fine I guess I targeted such for years myself, even while reading Tom Barr and others using outrageous amounts, I now typically dose for two or three parts per million-chelated iron. If you also had some chelated (preferably DTPA) iron, I would reduce the CSM+B and add the iron. :gw
Large water changes allow us quite a bit of latitude in our dosing and our idea, my idea anyway is to give you the quickest start with the highest odds for success. A big tank is a big investment, in time and money. The numbers of people that give up the hobby in the first few months are staggering; making it a year is a real achievement. Doing everything you can to be successful from the beginning is important.
The figures I use and most of the experienced folks cite are starting points, over time, through observation you will learn, adapt and adjust. I think you are off to a very fine start.
My sincere advice is not to get too tied up in numbers and alternate plans as Tom Barr says, ‘pick a plan and stick with it’.
The early going with a new aquarium is the toughest, it gets easier, frankly though it is six months or so to get things settled in and stable.
Biollante
(Note1:This should not be seen as an effort to make me look smarter by agreeing with Gerry.)
(Note2: Agreeing with Gerry is a great way to appear smarter.)
Hi All,
To be fair I made (and still make) some assumptions, not being able to see for myself, I am limited to what is stated. I am with Gerry {Note 1,2} on the tap water, unless there is some major overriding reason use tap water or mix tap and RO. Using RO of course add GH booster and some (small amount of) baking soda.
Tug is very bright bulb and from what I can tell a very decent human being. The key here as Tug points out is not to be limiting in Liebig's Law of the Minimum, sense. Cute graphic http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/FertCalc_files/liebigs_law.htm.
Many who lacking experience rely on calculators and fancy arithmetic that include some rather outdated notion of levels of various nutrients. Traditional amounts of Plantex CSM+B was to target 0.1 ppm iron. This is fine I guess I targeted such for years myself, even while reading Tom Barr and others using outrageous amounts, I now typically dose for two or three parts per million-chelated iron. If you also had some chelated (preferably DTPA) iron, I would reduce the CSM+B and add the iron. :gw
Large water changes allow us quite a bit of latitude in our dosing and our idea, my idea anyway is to give you the quickest start with the highest odds for success. A big tank is a big investment, in time and money. The numbers of people that give up the hobby in the first few months are staggering; making it a year is a real achievement. Doing everything you can to be successful from the beginning is important.
The figures I use and most of the experienced folks cite are starting points, over time, through observation you will learn, adapt and adjust. I think you are off to a very fine start.
My sincere advice is not to get too tied up in numbers and alternate plans as Tom Barr says, ‘pick a plan and stick with it’.
The early going with a new aquarium is the toughest, it gets easier, frankly though it is six months or so to get things settled in and stable.
Biollante
(Note1:This should not be seen as an effort to make me look smarter by agreeing with Gerry.)
(Note2: Agreeing with Gerry is a great way to appear smarter.)
Hi,
EI calls for a MIN of 50% water change volume weekly. No need to do 70-80 just because I do.
As Tug and Bio have mentioned, use these replies as a starting point and adjust as YOUR tank needs.
Higher light and better c02 will require more macros/micros..
Remember also that as the bio-mass INCREASES, you also need to INCREASE ALL FERTS including C02!!!!!!
It is not quite set and forget (unless your tank NEVER changes lol) but not like it changes weekly either...
Try not to get too hooked up on ppm and testing of values for now.
Keep it simple, you can always complicate it AFTERWARDS LOL
EI is quite forgiving and if you are concerned about overdosing of EI, You can change more water..
C02 is usually what kills fish and other critters. Have yet to see anyone kill a fish with EI. Co2 yes, EI no.
EI calls for a MIN of 50% water change volume weekly. No need to do 70-80 just because I do.
As Tug and Bio have mentioned, use these replies as a starting point and adjust as YOUR tank needs.
Higher light and better c02 will require more macros/micros..
Remember also that as the bio-mass INCREASES, you also need to INCREASE ALL FERTS including C02!!!!!!
It is not quite set and forget (unless your tank NEVER changes lol) but not like it changes weekly either...
Try not to get too hooked up on ppm and testing of values for now.
Keep it simple, you can always complicate it AFTERWARDS LOL
EI is quite forgiving and if you are concerned about overdosing of EI, You can change more water..
C02 is usually what kills fish and other critters. Have yet to see anyone kill a fish with EI. Co2 yes, EI no.
The reason I use RO water is because the water here is very hard and has alot od dissolved solids in it. the KH is 12 and GH I don't remember what it is but it was high also. Yes I replace the good stuff with either RO Right fron Kent or Seachems Equilibrium RO Conditioner. But I have a more pressing matter at hand, my new plants are melting. I could use some help here PH is 6.9 KH 6.1.Hydro Katila for circulation, nitratrates 10 ppm , phosphates .5
How were the plants from AquariumPlants.com? Were they nice when you got them. They look decent in your photo