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New 100g Setup

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by scottward, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Hi guys,

    I am getting a new 72" x 18" x 20" tank (~ 100 gallons).

    I am thinking about having it drilled for a sump, but I'm not sure what size bulkheads I need.

    I have 2 Eheim 2217 filters and an Aqua Medic OR-2500 external pump feeding an AM1000 at the moment.

    What I would like to do is plan the bulkheads to suit a sump, but continue to use the existing filters/external CO2 reactor for the moment until I have time to set the sump up.

    Scott.
     
  2. mike

    mike Guru Class Expert

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    Hi Scott,

    Looks like your OR2500 is rated for 625 gph, taking into account head pressure that probably goes down to 500 gph and maybe less. How many bulkheads were you planning on having? Were you planning a BeanAnimal style overflow? If so a full syphon one inch bulkhead will support up to 2000 gph.

    Mike
     
  3. jcgd

    jcgd Prolific Poster

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    I used 1" for my 160 gallon. I use an Eheim 1262 for my return pump and there's lots of room to handle more flow in the drains.
     
  4. joshvito

    joshvito Prolific Poster

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    BeanAnimal style overflow?
     
  5. mike

    mike Guru Class Expert

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    The Origianl BeanAnimal site is http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx/

    However, I find this is a better explanation of the BeanAnimal Overflow http://www.glassreef.com/basics_overflow.php

    I have one on my 125G but slightly modified. My overflow box is external so it does not take up any room in my display tank. I followed this design http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1963837&page=2

    Mike
     
  6. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Thanks for the replies.

    Was actually thinking for my first sump attempts I would use a simple stand pipe in one corner and a return in the corner opposite.
     
  7. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Scott,

    A 3/4 or 1" bulkhead will be more than sufficient IMO/IME.

    A 3/4 will flow less water but is a lesser footprint...

    My old 180 had twin overflows and I swapped the sump wet/dry for a closed loop using the same bulkheads....ez peasy...
     
  8. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Thanks Gerry. I have been reading through some of your earlier threads about plumbing etc.

    I'm thinking I will put two 3/4" bulkheads in one back corner, and four 3/4" bulkheads in the opposite back corner.

    The corner with two 3/4" bulkheads will be the intake and return for one of the Eheim 2217's, similarly two of the four bulkheads in the opposite back corner will be used for my second Eheim 2217, the remaining two bulkheads being used for the OR-2500 (feeding AM1000) intake/return.

    This is a similar arrangement in terms of intakes/returns to what I have now, albeit using the bulkheads rather than hoses over the top. Coupled with the Tunze NanoStream, this gives me a nice slow horizonal whirlpool (can't remember the spelling - geyer??).

    Having the four bulkheads in one corner would lend itself to a BeanAnimal style overflow down the track; perhaps I could make a full length overflow along the back or something along those lines....

    So I think so far so good?

    Regarding the underneath part, I'd like to connect ball valves (or gate valves) directly underneath each of the bulkheads, the obvious done thing for isolating the water should I wish to change the plumbing etc. I believe I can connect these ball values in one of 2 ways, either by using a short lenth of solid pipe slip to slip, or by using a short peice of threaded pipe, threaded to threaded (or slip to threaded or vice versa). I'm like the threaded with teflon tape option the best, as I will be able to remove it easily. Any thoughts/advice here?

    My thinking is that I would put the bulk head through, connect the bulk head nut but don't do it up tight, screw on the ball valve, orient the bulkhead/ball valve "assembly" such that the ball valve is at the front, then finally firmly tighten up the bulkhead nut to lock the assembly in position and seal up the bulkhead...

    Once I have this part sorted, I'll then move on to seek advice about the next bits.... :)

    Cheers,
    Scott.
     
  9. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    One thing that I'm thinking about over and over is whether it's better to have 2 larger bulk heads in the back corner, and split these 2 larger bulkheads underneath the tank to the 2 inlets/2 outlets.

    I also thought about 2 in one back corner, 2 in the centre back, and 2 in the other back corner....

    Any thoughts?

    Scott.
     
  10. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi Scott,

    Sounds like a lot of BH for a 100 gal tank.....

    You can do a single 1.5 or 2" INTAKE that could then be split via cone distributor or manifold. Then perhaps two 3/4 for outlets..

    Keep in mind that BH then need some sort of standpipe for the intakes and loc-line for the outlets. These need to be scaped around and/or hidden as needed.

    Can you do a CALFO overflow or similar and have all the BH up top?
     
  11. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Thanks.

    Gerry, I think you are right, too many bulkheads! :)

    I will have to research the CALFO overflow stuff...I want nothing over the sides of the tank, everything plumbed through the tank bottom down into the cabinet....I couldn't find any cone distributors or manifolds at the irrigation supplies shop that I can use here...I will have to investigate them some more......

    I'm now thinking two 1" bulkheads in each back corner.

    I have attached a diagram of how I think I will plumb this so far. I haven't worried about the in tank bits yet, that will be pretty easy to work out soonish. Ignore the exact positioning of the bulkheads, they are spaced out quite a bit at the moment to fit the text in but I'll tidy that up later on. Bulkhead spacing, if using 1" bulkheads, will be 1" from each pane, 1" apart edge-to-edge for each hole (based on my understanding of bulkhead rule of thumb) and assuming that this gives me enough room around each bulkhead for the other plumbing.

    The left hand side bulkheads will connect up to the single 2217; this side seems pretty easy considering it is a single device hook up. I can only find 5/8" hose tails available as a nut and tail connection, not as a director though, so I figured I will need to put a 1" x 1" nipple in place in order to hook this up.

    Regarding the other back corner, where I want to hook up another Eheim 2217 and an OR-2500 feeding an AM1000 CO2 reactor, yes, I think I will split the input underneath the cabinet, and merge the return streams.

    With this in mind - a general question - when supplying 2 pump inputs from a single source (e.g. a bulkhead), so as to avoid cavitation at the pump inputs, my understanding is that if you take the combined cross-secional area of each pump input and ensure that the source is >= this combined input, you should be ok?

    So, in my case, if I want to feed the input of the Eheim 2217 (input size is 5/8") and the input of the OR-2500 (input size also 5/8"), I can determine the cross-sectional area of these supplies thus:

    5/8" = 16mm (easier for me to convert to mm)
    16mm / 2 = 8mm (i.e. the radius)
    Pi x (8^2) = 200mm squared
    = 400mm (combined).

    So I just need to make sure that I choose a bulkhead with at least 400mm area?
    400mm / Pi = 127
    Square root of 127 = 11.2mm

    So I need a bulkhead with a diameter of 22mm - so a 1" bulkhead, which would have an inside diameter of 25mm, would work out just nicely?

    Assuming this thinking is ok, it seems that a simple 1" x 1" x 1" threaded Tee might do the trick on the inputs/returns? I have positioned the OR-2500 so that it is the straighthrough pass in each configuration, whilst the Eheim 2217 sucks/feeds from the side of the Tee.

    Will this work??? In theory I can't see any reason why it wouldn't....

    Scott.


    [attachment=1163:name]

    Plumbing.jpg
     
    #11 scottward, Aug 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2012
  12. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Hmmm...can't find any "cone distributors" - are they known by any other name?

    Also - regarding manifold - this is nothing more than a series of Tee's connected together?

    Scott.
     
  13. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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  14. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Hi Gerry,

    Cool, thanks for the link. I'm assuming you simply Googled "cone distributor"....when I Google that I get something completely different (this will simply be because of where I'm located and Googles internal results ranking etc etc). All good - I can have a look at these now....

    Thanks for looking over my diagram. I was thinking I would keep all the bulkhead sizes the same - basically to over-engineer it a bit I suppose. Is there anything specifically wrong with using 4 x 1" bulkheads - they cost the same per hole to drill and the 3/4" vs 1" bulkheads differ in price by about $2 - so not cost wise I presume?

    How are my cross sectional area calculations?

    Scott.
     
  15. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Scott,

    Sorry, I am a joker....I knew about Flex pvc and simply went there first :) I googled flex pvc lol

    Nothing WRONG per se with your config, just seems a lot is all. Remember that I struggled for WEEKS on my 220 and whether/how to drill it. Plus, it just makes it harder to scape, always having to work around the BH and pipes.

    I think your calcs seem fine, but I am no expert. As long as the INPUT pipe is large enough to handle all the input flow, you will be fine.

    Remember I got schooled a few weeks back by Bio when questioning if a 1" pipe could REALLY flow 1200 gph :)

    That was a good response or two and may be helpful..
     
  16. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Hi Gerry,

    At this stage, as far as the in tank stuff goes, I'm thinking I will have 2 intake strainers and 2 standpipes; not sure exactly how or what I will use, but I should start giving it some more detailed though soon... I think I will be able to hide the intake strainers easily, as I have a lot of E.Tenellus in my tanks and provided I don't let it choke the intake strainers, I should be able to grow it around the strainers and hide them pretty effectively. The back of my tank will be painted black, and the standpipe returns with nozzles will also be black, so I figure they should blend in pretty nicely, and I don't put any large hardscape in the back corners anyway so the standpipes shouldn't be a problem.

    Yup, I figured the intakes was the place to start to ensure no cavitation at the pumps. That FlexPVC website says 1" pipe can easily flow about 960GPH; so that's about 3634 litres per hour according to GeneratorJoe. My Eheim at 0 head is 1000 litres per hour, and the OR-2500 is 2500 litres per hour, so 3500 litres per hour total feed required at zero head. Of course I won't be running either at zero head coupled with manufacturers "talking it up"; so it would seem to me that 1" intakes will be fine, even allowing some head room should I wish to later connect something else (hence why I want to over engineer it a bit).

    I'm no expert at this stuff, but it seems reasonably logical....:)

    I will see if I can find your other thread about the 1" pipe flow. I know that Bio is very knowledgeable with all the mathematics etc, so that thread alone might answer all my questions...

    Scott.

    P.S. I have to move the tank as we are getting our floor tiles replaced; perfect opportunity to change a few things seeing I have to completely strip the tank anyway.
     
  17. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    If You Fuss Or Argue I Will Have To Go All Mathematical On You... No One Wants That!

    Hi,

    Staying away from math for now.
    :disillusionment:

    1” standpipes will work will nicely; 960-gph is solidly in the middle of the operating envelope, use 1½” or at least 1¼” bulkheads.
    :)

    I recommend three standpipes. Basic BeanAnimal is the safest and quietest in my ever-humble-potted-plant-experience-and-opinion.
    :)

    Biollante
     
  18. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Cool, thanks. Basic BeanAnimal will no doubt be my approach once I build a sump. Will hook up my existing 2 canisters and external pump for CO2 reactor in the meantime.

    If I had the four 1" bulkheads, and I used 3 of them for the BeanAnimal overflow, would the single remaining 1" bulkhead be enough for the return? If I understand correctly, with the pressure of a pump behind the return line, I can push several magnitudes more than 960GPH through it without too much back pressure/flow loss?

    While on the topic of BeanAnimal, the design seems pretty obvious - given the basic requirements for noise supression in a pipe - no offence to Mr BeanAnimal - but why is he credited for the design when surely this design has been realised many times before?

    Scott.
     
  19. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Firstest, Bestest Explanation-- Goodest PR

    Hi Scott,

    Even though the principles of “open-channel” were well understood, I think BeanAnimal got “credit” because he was the first to apply and explain them to the reef-keeping world (publicly anyway).
    :)
    • In many ways it really is a slap-on-the-forehead-DOH kind of moment once you see or understand it, but it wasn’t obvious (at least to me:eek:).

    Even though BeanAnimal uses valves on all three standpipes, the valve is only required on the “full-siphon.”
    :)

    A 1” return should easily handle 960-gph.

    • I would use a 1¼” return through a 1½” bulkhead.:cool:

    Biollante
     
  20. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

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    Ah ok, thanks for the BeanAnimal details, understood.

    So for my size tank, the idealconfiguation would be three 1½” bulkheads for the classic BeanAnimal intake, and a single 1¼” bulkhead for the return?

    But I could use 1" for everything, as I currently have planned, and that would be ok too, albeit a little less flow (middle of the operating envelope for 100g sump design)?

    Just re-iterating to make sure I have it clear in my head and I'm not mixing things up.

    I think I might pick up a few sample bulkheads to see how big these things are with their associated standpipes etc.... I'm a bit worried that going above 1" might be getting a bit too big to hide......

    Scott.

    P.S. I'm thinking I might plumb in a decent Level 1 UV sterilizer while I'm at it.............what are my chances of getting some quick advice on the side right here right now??? :) I've been reading the Carl S articles etc and understand that the flow rate has to be just right etc etc...
     
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