Need assistance with a non-co2 setup please

Hi all, I've been enjoying the site so far and would like to get some opinions on my new tank. This might end up kinda long, so sorry in advance for that. I have questions about different issues, but I don't want to post too many threads so I will try and make this concise and hopefully Tom and the rest will lend a hand.

My goals aren't very lofty. I don't need to keep any certain type of plant nor do I desire fast growth, other than if that is necessary during setup/cycle. This will probably house some crystal red shrimp. I live in Cleveland, OH (USA) and I believe the Ph is around 7.2 to 8 in the summer, I need to double check this and find out my gh/kh. Any recommendations on test kits? Not sure if I can dose with shrimp and I'd rather not do too much dosing if I can avoid it. Hopefully there will be a nice bio-load to help with that.

-I don't have a current tank setup so I won't have any mulm and I'm apprehensive to use some that comes out of a fish store due to disease. I read the non-co2 article and it mentioned the mulm for all the substrate options I believe.

-I was thinking Soilmaster/Turface/Schultz for the savings as I may do 2 tanks. I was going to add leonardite to that. A thread about wildly lowered PH has caused me pause about the Soilmaster. Any thoughts?

-Also considering Onyx with the leonardite. Does Onyx raise the Ph?

-And finally Aquasoil if I can swing it financially. Would leonardite and mulm be recommended with ADA or is it not necessary?

-Most likely this will be a 15 standard or 20L. Would like to do multiple 10's if I could find a nice rack, but have heard repeatedly that the crystals like a larger tank for breeding. Also the 20L is nice visually.

-I've heard Tom mention that one 24" T5 HO with a nice reflector would be good for a modest sized tank, but I haven't been able to find such an animal with an enclosure. Most T5 options are still limited to the big multi-bulb setups or retrofits. I'm sure the market will change eventually and I'm curious to see what the price on those new Hagens will be or if they will even come to the states. Anyone know of a single T5 HO hood?

-I believe 65 or 55 watt CF is too high wattage for this setup's goals. And the 36 watters are too short for the 20L, but maybe if I go to a smaller tank they will be good.

-Any thoughts on the Coralife T5 NO strips with 2 bulbs? That would give me 36 watts with a shiny reflector, but not parabolic. Most likely I am going to use the stands available for most of these lights and raise them off the tank and use a glass canopy. Would 36 watts be enough raised off the tank and through glass?

-How do most of you cycle your tanks? I understand that if you stock heavy with plants right away you cycle almost immediately? Are fast growers a requirement for that? Not sure how to approach this, I've heard of adding ammonia etc...How does aquasoil change the cycle method?

Thanks much for reading. Sorry about the length, but I feel it's importand to mention the goals and expectations I have to give you an idea on how to help me create a balanced setup.

Peace, Anthony

 

Hi there, please note in my post that I have read it. My questions are to narrow things down and get more specific recommendations.

 

Thanks much!

Are there any standard 2x NO FL fixtures out there besides the standard All Glass and Perfecto?

That Coralife T5 NO appealed to me not so much because it's T5, but because it has at least a decent reflector and it comes with legs to raise it up. Also it's actually cheaper than the previously mentioned "standards"

I was thinking Onyx and some BD Leonardite, I saw you mentioned 1 pound per 20, would I mix that or put the Leo down as I would peat?

So I don't have to have fast growers? I'm thinking of your standard anubias, java moss and fern. Mostly because they are known to be easy.

For ferts would I follow EI for this setup or just use an all around like excell or something?

Will this tank cycle right away? I just don't like using fish to cycle and not sure if you meant that the herbivores would be a part of that process. Or maybe it will be a very mild cycle with all the plants?

I'm curious why you don't believe aquasoil to be the best bet for me?

I'm not questioning, I just like to understand the reasons for certain choices especially when coming from someone I can learn alot from.

Thanks again,

Anthony

 

Thanks again Tom, I'm narrowing this down now. My mistake was mentioning EI, I was thinking of that as normal ferts, not the minimal amounts you are probably suggesting I dose 1-2x monthly. I'll look into what those should be, I thought maybe Flourish...I'll do some more reading.

Not doing water changes? I was going to hold off on them during the beginning as you suggested, but once stocked I imagine I will have to with a hopefully breeding shrimp colony.

I think I will go with Onyx as you suggest. Should I mix in the Black Diamond or put it down like peat?

And I may now have a source for some mulm to speed things along.

So it's safe to put fish in relatively soon since I will be starting with a heavy plant mass? I've just read the articles about planting heavy right away giving an almost immediate ability to stock.

 

I plan on breeding (hopefully) large amounts of CRS. So that's why I had planned on the weekly water changes which would deviate me from the outline non-co2 setup in your article. Do you think I can get away with no water changes with such a high bio-load?

I realize that the water changes will affect which system approach I take with this tank. In which ways it changes the system maintenance and setup is what I'm trying to nail down.

4" inches of Onyx will up the price a bit. If I use AS would leonardite still be of benefit? I'm thinking if not then I would actually save money not buying the black diamond and having to use less inches of substrate with AS.

I will look up Osomocoat as well.

I'm in the process of getting a water report as well and will see if that affects and substrate and inhabitant choices.

Thanks for all the help and I hope this isn't an annoyance. I use the search function here and at other sites for many hours at a time, lol, so I don't want anyone to think I haven't put the time in.

 

I was just trying to keep it simple since I'm not yet concerned with getting fast growth, picky plants, etc...for this project.

I'm open to the idea if that would indeed be an easier option even if it didn't appear so at first glance. Wouldn't that entail more dosing?

Is it best to use straight AS or is a peat product and osomocoat still a good idea?

I'm a little apprehensive about the Co2 and CRS as well.

 

Last night I was thinking about all the different approaches I've read about and figured there had to be a nice middle ground somewhere for me, since I figured the water changes are what will throw me off if I tried to go real low tech.

Low and behold I log on here and see that you have posted exactly that! This has been a great help. Sorry it was a little round about. I shouldn't have posted "non-co2 setup", since intitially I didn't realize that the water changes would be the deciding factor.

I'm with you on the low light and I want to be at 1.5, since I have to go with what's available that might put me at 1.8, hopefully this will be ok.

Since this will be at most a 20 gallon how do you feel about Excel? I imagine Co2 will be cheaper in the long run, but I want to try my hand with all this first. I'm a long time hobbiest, but not much with plants.

I did track down some numbers from the water divisions website. They are about a year old and don't specify which plant they come from. I think there are 4 in Cleveland and we use Lake Erie, not sure if they would vary much. These are the numbers I got:

Ph: 7-7.6
Gh: 6.7
Kh: 4.4

I found this very interesting since everyone always says our water is so hard, but isn't 6.7 somewhat soft? And isn't the Kh just barely getting to the point where it would be a good buffer at 4.4? My understanding of these issues is very limited.

I'm going to go get a test kit, hopefully one of the ones that has multiple tests in it to save some dosh. Any recommendations amongst the typical brands of Seachem, AP, Hagen, Tetra? I'm looking at Ph, Kh, Gh, probably ammonia and nitrite, but these seem limited for my use other than to be extra sure the tank has cycled...Nitrate seems to be valuable, but are they worth it when just buying a cheapo?

If those readings are correct, should they come into play with my decision on substrate? Onyx seems like it would be a nice buffer, but then I've heard of it buffering too much when adding Co2 as the Ph drops.

AS has the opposite reputation. If I go AS do I still add the peat? I'm not really sure where as differs greatly from the other options as far as additional nutrients. Are there organics in it? I heard it raises ammonia at first.

I'm looking at Soilmaster/Turface as well since if I do multiple tanks there would be significant savings. Other than it being a little light it sounded like it would be pretty good, but then I saw that some have had there Ph drop with it. People speculate that the quality and contents may differ with what batch you get and unknown propertied could be a problem. Any thoughts on this one?

I'm actually getting ready to buy the stuff now and not just read about.

big thanks,

Anthony