This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Need a little help dialing in

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by rajkm, Jan 15, 2016.

  1. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    So, I am 4 weeks into EI. I was on PPS for 4 weeks before that until I could get CO2 setup, and before that I used Seachem routine.


    I think looking at my tank I would consider it heavily planted. I do have a good amount of fish, and shrimp and 5 snails adding to bio load.


    ALl this time one thing that has stuck and does not go away is GSA.


    Since I started EI I also see some BBA or thread algae (not sure which form of thread algae but grown at the roots of HS and Eleocharis.


    The CO2 comes on 2 hours before the lights but its only by mid-day that both my drop checkers reflect that I have good CO2. I do have two drop checkers, one out at front and one oppsite end at back.


    I need to know what is the appropriate dosing regime for me.


    For specifics.


    Tank Size : 16 Gal with about 11 gal of water.


    Heavy bio filtering, 500ml of Matrix, 100ml Substrat Pro, Topped with Sponge and this is on both sides of the overflow sump at back of the tank.


    Fluval Plant and Fresh 2.0 lights. Starts 8.30 at 1% goes to 30% by Noon, Break from 2-4 and then from 5pm to 8.30pm goes from 35% to 0%. Blue stays on for another 2 hours.


    I am currently dosing


    KNO3 1/8 tsp 3x (M-W-F)


    KH2PO4 1/16 tsp 3x (M-W-F)


    CSM+B 1/16 tsp 2x a week (T-Th)


    Water change 50% with DI water and GH Booster 1/2 tsp


    Challenges.


    GSA


    Signs of BBA


    Crypt Luetea has brown leafs


    Hygrophila Corymbosa "Compacta" has pinholes on leafs


    Rotala Indica and Rotala rotundifolia have bad growing leafs, both seem to do better if I dose more K (K2SO4 or Flourish Potassium)


    Ludwigia Repens is smaller leafs than when it started out


    I need to know what is the right level for my tank. I see Potassium deficiencies, some algae but can't seem to solve for it. If I add more Potassium which will drive more N and P uptake which will cause more algae issues.


    I assume based on my plants someone can suggest what alterations I need to do.


    The following are the plants I have


    Mayaca fluviatilis (only one small stem)


    Hygrophila difformis - Wisteria


    Rotala rotundifolia


    LUDWIGIA REPENS


    Elodea Densa


    Hygrophila Corymbosa "Compacta"


    Anubias barteri var. nana


    Staurogyne Repens


    Eleocharis acicularis 'Mini'


    Hemianthus callitrichoides


    Rotala Indica (Rotala indica)


    cryptocoryne lutea


    Alternanthera Reineckii


    Java Moss


    XMas Moss


    Lily


    Myrio Filigree (red) - very short 4 stems in the back, waiting for it to grow out.


    Limnophila Heterophylla (purple mudwort)


    Pogostemon Helferi - only few surviving stems after my BNP uprooted all.


    Lysimachia Nummularia (Golden Jenny) (mostly all lost thanks to my BNP who I got rid of now)


    Hygrophilia "Araguala" (just added)


    Proserpinaca palustris (just added)
     
    #1 rajkm, Jan 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2016
  2. Julia Adkins

    Julia Adkins aquariumfertilizer.com
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    42
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    First thing I would suggest is stopping the phosphates. Phosphates are necessary for healthy root development but can build up in the substrate. Also phosphates get into the tank in sneaky ways such as excess fish food which tends to be high in phosphates. This would be something to look at since you say you have a heavy fish load. This will contribute to algae proliferation. How often do you do water changes? I recommend 1/4 to 1/3 of tank water twice a week to maintain water chemistry homeostasis.
     
  3. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    Thanks Julia for the reply.


    I do water change every Sunday 50% with DI water from Whole Foods.


    Doesn't PO need to be around 2ppm to get rid of GSA?
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    DI water from WF is not needed.


    Tap should be fine, as long as it's not from Flint MI!


    If you run into issues,generally a simple 8 hour light time frame, add CO2 only when the lights come on and 2x a week water change.


    I'd use more GH, about 1 tsp after water changes.


    2x a week 50-70% works pretty well.


    If you want softer water, blend the DI/RO water with tap, do not use pure DI.


    No need, and i cost you more, blend with tap instead.


    Some tweaking of the CO2, trim of the plants, add some more algae eaters, SAE's etc, bristle nose, reduce the light, add excel etc.


    All these things taken together, will help.


    2-5ppm for PO4, BNP's are pretty good for all types of glass algae, but if you have poor PO4 and/or poor cO2, nothing will change that.


    Focus on new growth and new algae for CO2 adjustments. Do these slow and make small progressive adjustment. Do not rely on a drop checker.
     
  5. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    Thanks Tom for the advice.


    DI water for me is free at my local Whole Foods that's why I use it. Its the only store in Oregon to offer free water (RO or DI)


    I will increase my water changes. may be do tap middle of the week and DI on weekends.I can do DI both times, I have two 5 Gal containers that I fill up.


    I was running CO2 off a Paintball tank so might have been a bit conservative but yesterday I moved up to 5# tank so I can increase my CO2 a bit.


    I think circulation of water could also be a problem because my back of the tank drop checker always indicates lower than the front corner.


    Let be try that and will let everyone know how it went.
     
  6. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    So another month in, no real progress with the algae situation.


    I caved in and purchased Seachem Phosphate and Iron tests and API Mater test kit, since all I had currently was the API 6-in-1 test.


    Tank was cleaned Sunday with 50% water change. No GSA on glass this morning, only on hardscape.


    Reading at morning 7.30 AM before lights and CO2 start


    Phosphate : around 2.0 - 2.5


    Nitrate : around 10-20 ppm


    Iron : around 0.05 - 0.1


    So I only dosed KH2PO4 and Seachem Iron


    Came back home to find GSA around much of the glass near the substrate.


    Tested water again suspecting all the Phosphate might have been taken up, but got the same readings for Phosphate and Nitrate. Did not test for Fe.


    Suspecting the test is not giving right reading, did a reference test for phosphate, and found it to be accurate. I had the reference in the cavity next to the tank test The reference test was light green as and indicated on the chart for 1.0 reading and tank water was darker blue which was clost to the 2.0 - 2.5 reading.


    So given that my Phosphates are staying around 2.0 - 2.5 due to my fish load and food I don't know how I can fix the GSA problem.


    2 weeks ago I tried heavier phosphate dosage to end up having BBA and other fuzz algae taking over much of my tank. Lost my Rotala Indica, some A Reineckii were all covred in GSA so threw them out and all my XMas moss had brush algae so got rid of 80% of them.. Did a 80% water change to reset, dosed heavy Excel which melted all my E Densa but also got rid much of my fuzz algae.


    I had added SAE but they are not touching as much BBA but are eating some of my plant soft areas which causes some of them to break.


    Can someone please help.
     
  7. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    Just seeing this thread for the first time. Some classic problems. Not hard to fix if you put in the work. Test kits won't help you solve any of your problems. Re-read Tom's post about water changes. Follow his 2X a week, 70% water change advice. Tom packs a lot of experience into a few sentences. May be hard to understand or seem irrelevant, but please scroll up and re-read. Several times.


    Your CO2 is probably an issue. Drop checkers are crude and usually not very useful, but in this case, if it is only turning the right color at noon, then you may have an issue. Possibly not enough flow and filtration.


    Your tank is really small. You are dosing way too much traces for a 16 gallon. Some of your symptoms sound a LOT like trace toxicity. You do NOT have potassium deficiency. Hygro Compacta are excellent indicator for induced deficiency, which is really a toxicity of some trace metal. In other words, too much CSM+B. Those potassium deficiency pinholes won't go away if you add a tablespoon of potassium into the tank every other day. I promise you. I think trace overdosing is as big a problem here as CO2.


    Hard to say how much light you have, but lower is better.


    Here are my suggestions:


    1. Toss the test kits. Do the 2X/week 70% water changes. Oregon tap water is usually very nice. May need Seachem Equilibrium of GH booster if water is soft. Time spent going to Whole Food is better spent on water changes and cleaning.


    2. Fix CO2. Work on quantity, steadiness/stability, and water circulation. You may need better hardware.


    3. Reduce ferts, especially traces. Don't dose any traces for the first week. Then go back to using Flourish Comprehensive at suggested doses or less. Easy to screw up CSM+B with such small tanks and dry dosing. Perfectly fine to use commercial liquid ferts for small tanks.


    You're doing a lot of anti-algae things. That's OK. But what will get rid of algae is providing plants everything they need at the right levels. Focus on that and algae will go away.
     
    #7 Pikez, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2016
  8. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,417
    Likes Received:
    639
    Local Time:
    8:44 PM
    Hey Vin :)


    Hehe. Can you explain symptoms of trace toxicity? How did you come to read and learn about it? I find it hard, hard to believe there could be a trace toxicity with dosing/using the calculator. Sorry to highjack the thread, just because i'm going by the ei trace, doesn't mean that this is not possible all tanks different, but can you please explain.


    Dennis
     
  9. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,417
    Likes Received:
    639
    Local Time:
    8:44 PM
    How long does it take for the drop checker to turn green or yellow? Mine dials in yellow about 2 hrs into photoperiod, 1 hr green into photoperiod


    I would first turn off your filter, trim away all the algae parts, either let float to surface and net or suck it up with a siphon.


    Water changes for the bba


    Reduce the photoperiod to 5 hrs a day. This will not harm your plants at all, i assure you.


    Your tank looks good I assure you, just lacking maintenance issues
     
  10. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    it takes about 4 hours for both drop checkers to go yellow.


    I have checked my ph yesterday and it dropped from 6.8 to 6.0 by the time CO2 stopped. So I think I can increase my CO2 a bit more.


    I will give 2x water change a try. Just need to find time for it in middle of the week.


    I will also change my photo period. I had it high due to red plants not staying red but let me tackle algae first.
     
  11. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM

    Ask Solcielo. He can explain it better. :p


    I'm going with the combination of pinholes in Hygro compacta, decreasing leaf size, and weird leaf shape on Rotala. If it was just the Rotala, I'd be inclined to say 'CO2 issues.' But Compacta (Kompakt) only does this when there is a nutrient imbalance or too much of some trace metal. I can't say with 100% certainty which it is, but Hygro Kompakt and pinnatifida are not very CO2 sensitive but seem susceptible to induced K deficiency. These two species of Hygros are pretty hardy outside of this issue. It's a classic sign of nutrient…uh…funkiness. No one can tell you with confidence exactly which mineral in excess does this or at what level or which ratio is off. That is why I call it nutrient funkiness. There is a lot unknown. When you do fix the problem in Hygro Kompakt, the leaves will flatten out and get huge in a hurry.


    Given the current nutrient soupiness of rajkm's tank, if you add the following plants, I will bet $100 that the tips will stunt and twist: Ammannia gracilis, Didiplis, Rot wallichii, Rot enie, Rot vietnam, Cuphea, Ammannia pedicellata. If he adds Hygro pinnatifida, it will develop pinholes. If someone else will donate the plants, I will donate $100. Cash.


    Forget hijacking the thread, Dennis, we're hijacking the dude's tank! :D
     
  12. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,417
    Likes Received:
    639
    Local Time:
    8:44 PM
    No way I'm going to wager vs. your ConFidence in the issue.
     
  13. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    I will welcome those plants and even pay shipping. I am on the waiting list for Rotalla Wallichii at my LFS. I missed it the last time it was there.


    Just bought more Rotala Indica since the previous one succumbed to algae.


    Pikez if you think CSM+B is not a good trace mix due to its ratio, what do you think about this http://www.barrreport.com/forum/barr-report/co2-enrichment/7365-how-to-make-diy-tropica-plant-nutrition-or-how-to-make-the-good-shit


    came accross it on another topic posted on this forum, found it interesting.


    Also I have taken and implemented all Tom Barr advice. His dutch tank is what inspired me to go planted so there was no chance i would neglect his advice. I dont care if I lost plants or having trouble. I am in for the long run and to a reasonable level so is my wallet so all I am looking for advice and steady progress. The goal is to have a healthy tank


    I had reduced my light intensity to 70%, already programmed the lights for 50% intensity today.


    I increased my CO2, changed the diffuser to atomic ceramic diffuser. I think I need to some how find better way of effectively dissolving CO2 instead of just putting it thru intake of return pump.


    I did add a pump in the tank to circulate water around the tank.


    I had cleaned all my leaves, only kept healthy parts. moved low light plants to areas where they can't get as much direct light.


    Removed all of my carpet of E Acicularis mini and replaced it with monte carlo which is slowly carpeting in. Removed the lava rock along with all my HC Cuba since there was too much thread algae at the roots and GSA and taken over all open spots on the rock.


    Added 3 SAE, 1 BNP, added 3 new otos to replace old ones.


    Reduced fish load.


    All my shrimp (RCS and Amano) and netrite snails died, not sure what caused it. Was overdose or build up of something or my fish ate them all. Not replacing them since I have a snail infestation so I added drawf chain loach and Yoyo loach, which is also not helping due to my substrate.


    So I am taking all the advice I am getting and trying it slowly


    So my action plan from the advice I have got


    2x water change per week - Its hard to do between work and kid but will try. may bye do once ever 4-5 days if possible so it will be around 3 every 2 weeks.


    Reduce light intensity and photo period - Already programmed


    Dont dose CSM+B - Had added it yesterday so will stop from today for a week and then only do Flourish.


    Remove filter - I will start with removing 25% and then another 25% and so on, monitoring how my fish react and build up goes.


    Increase CO2 - already increased it today to near 1.5 BPS, will monitor how my fish react and might increase it further if things remain well.


    Any other suggestions.
     
  14. Dennis Singh

    Dennis Singh SynKing!

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,417
    Likes Received:
    639
    Local Time:
    8:44 PM
    I would not increase co2 and lower lighting at the same time. Lower lighting, same stable co2, you got a better diffusion method now, you added some fish that need to adapt, you might end up killing em off. The diffusion is key here. You have a small tank, very easy to get good co2 levels.


    Up to you, but my little tidbit advice here.
     
  15. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    Good point.


    I'll keep co2 at same level for few days with lower lights and monitor the behavior before dialing it up.
     
  16. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    I don't have a problem with the ratios of CSM+B. It's been used for decades with no issues by thousands of people. The problems start when you dry dose by spoon into very small tanks. It is hard to get an even mixture and it is easy to overdose. I have a sneaky suspicion that your inverts died due to this. Just a guess. I make a half liter CSM+B solution that I keep in the fridge. This partially addresses the issue of one 1/16 tsp being different from another. I also dose an equivalent of half tsp CSM+B a week into a 180 gal tank. That's easier and more efficient for me than using commercial liquid fertilizers. But if I had a 10 or 20 gal tank, I'd go with Flourish or Profito.


    Most commercial fertilizers have slightly different ratios. I don't think that makes a huge difference as long as you are consistent with dosing and are within the right range. A 'more is better' attitude will backfire with trace element dosing. If you can't do water changes during the week (yes, I get the work/kid thing) try doing two big water changes on the weekends. A big one on Saturday with no dosing at all. And another big one on Sunday with GH booster and macros. Start with Flourish Comprehensive a week or so later.


    Reducing your light will make the available CO2 more accessible by all plants, in that more aggressive plants (wisteria, elodea, limno) are not hogging it. Having a good current will help. Once your tank settles down after a couple of weeks, consider inching up the CO2 bubble rate just a bit. The goal is to provide just a little more than necessary so you can rule CO2 out as a cause of trouble.


    Clean, water change, dose. Repeat over and over.
     
  17. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
    Staff Member Lifetime Member Article Editor

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    218
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    Thanks @Pikez.


    Will keep everyone posted on the progress.
     
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,694
    Likes Received:
    728
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM

    I'll take your money.


    I accept paypal, hehe


    D. diandra going back some 20+ years to present.


    [​IMG]


    A. gracilus trees


    [​IMG]


    R. wallichii,/R enei, vietnam, I can and have grown these at wide ranging trace levels.


    [​IMG]


    Cuphea? Same. Trimming tricks and replanting, the old growth will do that, but the nice tips, nope.


    Old growth will later sprout new growth that's nice and good from then on. R wallichii growing nicely in the rear.


    [​IMG]


    "Ask Solcielo. He can explain it better."


    I do not see how since the hypothesis is resoundingly falsified. Liebig's law has far more explanatory power in reconciling differences in the results.


    And the results on both sides clearly support that. They do not support anything he has said near as I can tell.
     
    2 people like this.
  19. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    Local Time:
    4:44 AM
    Not in your tank, Tom! :D Bet's only good in rajkm's tank with no change in dosing, with original macro and CSM+B levels. That's where the problem exists. If you have all these plants, I'll even pay for them for you to send to rajkm. If they grow nicely, I will PayPal you $100. If tips misbehave in his tank, I know exactly which plants I'd like you to ship me. (But I'm afraid this ship may have sailed because rajkm has already doubled his water changes, reduced light, and switched to Flourish Comprehensive, I believe. He is also thinking of increasing CO2. A completely different and better environment.)


    The $100 is merely an expression of my confidence in my hypothesis. It is not because I know it to be fact. I don't and no one does.


    As you know, I tried the 'trace detox' thing last year when everyone was talking about it. It was a freaking disaster! And I posted pictures to prove it. I came to the conclusion that trace detox was temporarily harmless but very detrimental long-term even in rich substrates. That fad needs to die, but it did highlight the potential risks of indiscriminate 'more is better' attitude I had previously espoused regarding traces. I am not a fert-minimalist. My tank does best at rich macros and very high CO2. But I am a moderate when it comes to traces and light. But defining moderate traces is very, very hard due to individual tank differences.


    But I will never stop beating the Lythraceae drum. All the genera in this family misbehave independent of ideal CO2 for unknown reasons. If CO2 is rich and stable then these issues can only be caused by either light, nutrients, water, or substrate. Easy to rule out light and water since the former is measurable and the latter easy to reconstitute from RO and measure. So it must be nutrients or substrate. I don't claim to know exactly what causes Lythraceae family of plants to misbehave. But they do. Not just for me, but for many, many people. It's just that most people think the problem is limited to their tank or that species. Example: 'Help! my macrandra tips are stunted.' If you look at the species level, it looks random. If you look at the genus level, it still looks random. When you look at the problem plants at a Family level, it becomes clear that there is something about Lythraceae that we do not fully understand. Some of Marcel Golias' (now offline) published work on Rotala wallichii also points to these plants needing leaner water column. Support for my Lythraceae hypothesis is only getting stronger but no one has been able to articulate the root cause with data. We have associations and correlations.


    I remember emailing you back in 2002 (!) about stunted Ammannia tips. I was still battling it in 2013. In my current very densely planted tank, I was only able to stop tip stunting behavior after going to 1/4 to 1/2 EI levels for traces. Light was lowered by third recently. But tip stunting was mostly gone before light lowering. CO2/KH have been same for a couple of years. Others (like you) with full EI level traces do not have issues. I don't know why. I can only speak for myself. At full EI levels of traces, I have issues with Lythrceae. I have falsified that Lythraceae are exclusively CO2-sensitive. I've had singed/scorched Ammannia gracilis tips at medium CO2, high CO2, and ridiculous (100+ ppm) CO2 + 1 tsp of CSM+B per day. Stable CO2 had nothing to do with it. I have repeated these tests.


    It cannot be denied that there is a problem with Lythraceae that is independent of CO2. If you do, that changes the discussion. :) Hobbyists struggle with this family of plants, especially when they go high-tech. It is a recurring theme here, TPT, APC, UKAPS and at local club meetings. I seem to have found a way around the problem. Others haven't.


    We have differing thoughts on what causes this issue. How do we solve it?
     
    #19 Pikez, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2016
  20. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    624
    Local Time:
    8:44 PM
    I wish to backup what Vin just wrote with some new developments from my own experiments on CSM+B toxicity.


    As you guys may recall, after struggling with BBA for a long time, I started the detox experiment back in November around the same time of Vin, and the results were amazing after 1 week into the detox:


    http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11...ml#post8634993


    Fact is, after 10-15 days, situation got worse, etc... exactly like Vin experienced, and other people such as Solcielo experienced as well.


    I kept testing with the detox, and after 3 months of testing, I am confident to say that what can explain such different results among people is WATER HARDNESS.


    Let me explain why I reached this conclusion, and it is very simple as you may guess... Here is some history about my own experiments performed in the past 3 months:


    1. Before trying the detox, started back in November 15, I used to dose 0.4ppm of Fe via CSM+B every other day, with water change EVERY 2 WEEKS. Sounds crazy, isn't it? Yes, but most of my plants used to grow well, despite BBA was always around. Some plants were a little (not completely) stuck though: AR, Ludwigia Puerensis, Java Moss. My fish life span was pretty short (neons lasting 2-3 mohths max, Amano shrimp dying after 1-2 weeks, etc). Of course my tank was toxic in some way, and I could confirm that from what happened to my tank and plants after 1 week stopping dosing traces...


    2. I stopped dosing traces for 10 days, with big water changes, and here is what happened: in just 5 days, BBA began to disappear from my Anubia leaves as documented here:


    http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11...ml#post8634993


    And some plants such as AR began putting out new leaves, and roots everywhere. Ludwigia Puerensis got a similar development, with new and much larger leaves. My tank was clearly detoxing, and plants showed me clearly that. My critters also showed me that: those few shrimp, appeared to be around during the day after months hiding under rocks and woods, some fish began breeding soon, after months of no babies around...


    3. After 10-12 days into detox, and NOT dosing any traces, I began seeing some little BBA back on some Anubia leaves... well, I thought: ok, maybe is time to begin dosing some traces again. I began dosing just Flourish comprehensive for a couple of weeks, together with Flourish Trace, as recommended by Seachem. Well, situation kept getting worse. I decided to keep 50% water change weekly to stabilize the tank.


    4. After 1 month after detox, by reading that you guys (Vin and Tom) had similar results, and got your good growth back by resuming CSM+B dosing at 0.2ppm Fe every other day (Vin) and 0.1ppm Fe daily (TOM), I decided to do the same: 0.2ppm Fe every other day. Well, after 2 weeks of such a routine, nothing changed. Plants were still in bad shape.


    5. In mid January, almost panicking because most of my plants were completely stuck, and BBA was rampant, I decided to completely "reset" the tank by changing completely its water to reach zero levels for any detectable nutrient (macros included), so I thought to start from a clean slate.


    6. So, I began the same exact routine of Vin's, with weekly 50% water changes, and I thought: well, if Vin can do it I can do it too, right? Instead... nothing changed! My plants kept being stuck, BBA didn't go away, nada! Why is that? Why for Vin and Tom worked and not for me??!! Was I cursed??!!


    7. 1 Week ago, desperate, I resumed my 0.4ppm Fe dosing via CSM+B and guess what??!!! My plants woke up! BBA disappeared from Anubias again in a matter of days, plants started growing again! And now I am enjoying a much better tank and I guess BBA will disappear completely in a few days, again, exactly how it disappeared 7 days into the detox back in November.


    So... what does this teach us? Why do I need to dose more traces than Vin and Tom? I think it is just because of different water hardness. My water has GH 19 and KH 7, I use just tap water. Vin, if I am correct, half that and Tom around Vin's setup as well. It is my understanding that water hardness matters a lot in trace precipitation and consequent amount to dose. And, more compelling, traces appear to have a much narrower "sweep spot" than everyone thought. You can go from deficiency to toxicity very easily, and from toxicity to deficiency very easily as well.


    So, the lesson learned after months of experiments is to increase or decrease your traces dosing according to your plants response, and at the end it is the usual, classic paradigm, right? Yes, of course, but the great lesson here is that if you have BBA or struggling plants and you can't find a reason for, one of the reasons beside the "classic" belief of wrong Co2, wrong flow or too much organic matter around, may be simply be "too much" or "too low" traces level. Their correct range is very narrow and can screw a tank very easily. In my case that has been the proven case, and I think may also be the case of other folks having similar issues.


    So... why everyone has different results with traces dosing? I strongly believe "because everyone has different water hardness".


    I'll keep dosing 0.4 Fe from CSM+B for a while, with weekly 50% WC, then I'll try to reduce that to 0.3 Fe and see what happens. But the lesson is learned now, at least, I know my optimal range, not less than 0.2 Fe per dose for sure!


    Of course, we could digress and discuss why Solcielo thinks we have all toxic tanks, even by just dosing 0.1ppm Fe CSM+B, and maybe he's right, but I'll leave that to another time. In my case I can't backup his thinking right now, I have experimented far enough that too low traces for me doesn't work with my current setup... even though I can testify that when I setup this tank 8 years ago (with same water hardness) I could get along with a perfect tank full of plants and zero algae by just dosing Flourish Comprehensive once a week... but I used to have lower light, lower Co2 and zero macro dosing... that worked for a little bit more than a year, then problems started anyway... but I can also say that at that time, I used to grow wonderful Rotala Nanjenshan in my tank that now, with much greater nutrients, I am unable to grow. It really looks like those plants have an hard time with too much nutrients, either they have a lower toxicity threshold, or something else is going on with those plants.
     
    #20 fablau, Feb 27, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2016
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice