Name that Deficiency

aronson

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May 25, 2005
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Red Hook, NY
Hello all,

Been adding CO2 for the past 4 months and addng EI'ing along for the past 3 months -- keeping records for the past 2. Overall my tank is better than it's ever been. I'm creating a salad bowl of clippings every Sunday night during my weekly water change and anything I plant (so far) grows -- nothing dies. Here is a photo from a few weeks ago:

DSC00382.jpg


Here is my regimen:

Sun:
50%+ H2O Change
+ 1/8 tsp KNO3
+ 1/4 tsp Equilibrium
+ 1/4 tsp K2SO4

Mon, Wed, Fri:
+ 1/2 oz Flourish

Tue, Thur, Sat:
+ 1/8 tsp KNO3
+ 1/4 tsp K2SO4

My Lamotte kits typically register plenty of NO3 and PO4 when I test so I imagine I am dosing enough. So much PO4 that I stopped dosing it all together. My tap registers 0 so it must be coming from the fish and shrimp poop.

The thing that concerns me and leads me to this post is that my Glosso and Anubias both have dark green veins (not so easy to see on the Glosso) and yellow in between the veins. Here is an example:

DSC00391.jpg


All the new growth (since I added CO2 and EI) Anubias leaves look like that. Looks like something is deficient but I cannot determine what it might be. According to some posts here and on other forums the symptoms would indicate that Iron is lacking but I would think that the EQ and Flourish I am adding would take care of that. I have added Flourish Iron on occasion but it clouds my tank water which leaves (no pun intended :rolleyes: ) me to believe that (based again on some things I have read around the forums) it may be unavailable to the plants once the water is cloudy.

Any prognosis or thoughts from the public? I greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Adam
 

Tom Barr

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Jan 23, 2005
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Re: Name that Deficiency

Add 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 instead of 1/8"
Add KH2PO4, not K2SO4(you have enough K+ from the SeaChem EQ and the KNO3) at about 1/16" teaspoon(divide the 1/4 into 4 equal parts).

Try a different trace if that does not work.
TMG or Flourish.

Add K2SO4 only once a week after water change and same for the SeaChem EQ

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

aronson

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May 25, 2005
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Red Hook, NY
Re: Name that Deficiency

Thanks for the reponse, Tom!

Based on the second photo what do you think the Anubias and Glosso need more of? Am I supplying enough iron or is iron not the issue?

Until about 2 weeks ago I was dosing 1/4 tsp KNO3 and 1/16 KH2PO4. I dropped the amount because my pre water change measurements (at the end of a week of that routine) were 40ppm NO3 and PO4 was off the scale (both LaMotte kits).

Could the traces (Flourish) be the source of the deficiency?

A rhetorical question perhaps but are these values not problematic for my creatures?

Thanks again.

Adam
 

fosteder

Guru Class Expert
Feb 3, 2005
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Rochester, NH
Re: Name that Deficiency

I'm not sure at what level NO3 kills shrimp, but 40 ppm is not nearly high enough to bother fish. I think that happens around 100-120....the important word being "think". :D

I have had levels of 60 and the fish were fine.
 

brad

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Aug 2, 2005
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Re: Name that Deficiency

Most fish keepers will keep their nitrates under 20ppm. Certainly under 30ppm. I`ve seen people`s tanks with over 100ppm but I`ve also seen oscars in 10 gallons. I don`t think it would be wise. 40ppm may not kill fish but I imagine long term health is compromised.

Do the plants gain anything from having the nitrates that high?
 

fosteder

Guru Class Expert
Feb 3, 2005
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Rochester, NH
Re: Name that Deficiency

Not having done any kind of study into nitrate level vs. fish life span I wouldn't know how it affects their long term life. The EPA's MCL (maximum contaminant level) for nitrates in drinking water is 10 ppm. So you can go your whole life drinking 10 ppm without any affects. I'm sure fish don't need drinking quality water.

As far as your question about does that high of NO3 content help the plants: not at all. The plants will uptake as much as they can and the rest is waste.
 

Tom Barr

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Jan 23, 2005
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Re: Name that Deficiency

aronson said:
Thanks for the reponse, Tom!

Based on the second photo what do you think the Anubias and Glosso need more of? Am I supplying enough iron or is iron not the issue?

Until about 2 weeks ago I was dosing 1/4 tsp KNO3 and 1/16 KH2PO4. I dropped the amount because my pre water change measurements (at the end of a week of that routine) were 40ppm NO3 and PO4 was off the scale (both LaMotte kits).

Could the traces (Flourish) be the source of the deficiency?

A rhetorical question perhaps but are these values not problematic for my creatures?

Thanks again.

Adam


Awhhh, you looked at the test kits...........stop that!
If you want the nutrients to be lower, that is fine, add less, but do not stop dosing PO4.

Adding more traces will likely help.
Make certain the CO2 is good.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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Jan 23, 2005
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Re: Name that Deficiency

fosteder said:
Not having done any kind of study into nitrate level vs. fish life span I wouldn't know how it affects their long term life. The EPA's MCL (maximum contaminant level) for nitrates in drinking water is 10 ppm. So you can go your whole life drinking 10 ppm without any affects. I'm sure fish don't need drinking quality water.

As far as your question about does that high of NO3 content help the plants: not at all. The plants will uptake as much as they can and the rest is waste.

That's 10ppm N-NO3, so multiply by 4.4 => 44ppm of NO3.
That's due to Blue baby, you can look that health risk up.

Don't give yer baby the Blues.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

aronson

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May 25, 2005
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Red Hook, NY
Re: Name that Deficiency

Tom Barr said:
Awhhh, you looked at the test kits...........stop that!

I know... I know... My bad. I was also the kinda kid that searched out and found my holiday gifts in my parent's closet 2 weeks before Christmahanukah.

Tom Barr said:
Adding more traces will likely help.

Tom... Every post I've made here you suggest adding more traces (Flourish in my case). I am now beginning to think that you own stock in Seachem. :p

I am (as you can see) now adding 1/2 oz every other day into a 29g tank. How much more do you suggest I add?

Tom Barr said:
Make certain the CO2 is good.

For some reason I have trouble 'pushing' my CO2 down below 6.8. This past weekend I added a Rio powerhead to give some surface movement and circulation (my Eheim 2213 just wasn't cutting it in the turbulence dept.). Before that I was able to hit 6.7 with some tweaking of the SMS122. Based on my KH I am afraid of going any lower than 6.7. What do you suggest? I am not turning off my CO2 at night -- I figured the agitation of the surface would do the trick in keeping O2 in the water at night.

The good news is... things are growing and by 3pm every day (5 hours after lights on) I have pearling and fine beads of bubbles from my plants. Things are almost excellent if not near so.

Tom Barr said:
Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks, my good man. You rock. Eveyone's help here is appreciated. I hope I can give back such good advice some day.

Adam
 

Tom Barr

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Jan 23, 2005
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Re: Name that Deficiency

5-7mls every other day is a max amount of need for a 29 gal tank of traces(Flourish).

Just stick with what I suggested.
Watch the plants, and change things in reponse to them..........not the test kits

Regards,
Tom Barr