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My Tank

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by luismoniz, Oct 29, 2007.

  1. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom,

    Here how my tank are at this moment.

    DSC04011.jpg

    As you can see my arcuata and my moss dont grow well and all the tank are growing so slow, I already order one osmose unit for see if the problem is in my tap water.
    I will show here the results when osmose unit arrive!

    Thanks for all

    Luís Moniz
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Luis,

    The hardness(KH or GH) is not the issue, I routinely grew L acurata in extremely hard water with ease. Moss does seem to do a bit better in softer water, but it's a weed and does well either way.

    Try Xmas moss, it will grow in most any type of tap water.

    Nice tank BTW.

    Try direction the flow from the pollen glass to where the moss groups are.
    Moss can only use CO2, not hard water HCO3.

    So that and daily dosing might help, especially traces.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Yes Tom,
    But remember something its not ok in my tap water.
    I test dosing daily like this

    4ppm no3
    1,5ppm po4
    4ppm K+
    1ppm fe
    3ml TMG
    0,5gr GH boster after water change make gh on 4

    And after 2 weeks my tank are in the same way, slow grow and difiencies on arcuata leaves!
    I dont know what can i do more so i think order osmose unit to put all fine in the tank and see what happend.
    I hope i can see results this time!

    Thanks Tom for your words!

    Regards,

    Luís Moniz
     
  4. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    That is an extremely beautiful tank! Congratulations on that.

    You seem to be running a lean fertilizing routine, so I would expect the plants not to be growing fast, which is good, because you get to enjoy that beauty without constant pruning. I also notice that you use CO2. Do you use a drop checker to determine how much is in the water?
     
  5. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi VaughnH,
    Thanks for your comment and kind words ;)
    I am not happy with the grow of my tank, lugwigia arcuata dont grow well and the other plants are grow slow and bad. So i need help to change something what can possible do this! Understand me, my english is not so good i hope you guys understand.
    About drop checker, I has it but he broke on cleaning this weekend i already order another one! The color is yellow green with 4 dkh water solution.
    I hope here find the solution for my problem!
    One more picture!

    DSC03981.jpg


    Regards,

    Luís Moniz
     
  6. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Is your light set up just for taking photographs, or is that how it normally lights the tank? If that is the usual set up you could increase the light intensity by lowering the light. Right now a lot of that light misses the tank and lights up the wall behind it.

    I think you have a shortage of some nutrient or nutrients or a shortage of light. Either would lead to slow growth.
     
  7. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi again VaughnH,
    Thanks for your reply.
    That light is 30cm up from the tank and open with t5 for 10 hours (like in the image), hqi just open for 6 hours (14H - 19h), what you suggest? More hours for HQI?
    If in that way I am have problems on plants if I use more light i will need up the nutrients too right?
    I just want have lots of grow and good health, I want see my arcuata red (like TOM)
    Cafireresized.jpg
    and all my plants grow healthy! Please guys help me on that, tell me what can I do?
    More nutrients?
    More light hours?

    Regards,

    Luís Moniz
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    See the other thread about hoiw i trimmed the L acurata.
    you'll see two different colorations, one is done by allowing the biomass to grow out and then selecting only the reddest tops for replanting, I also did not add NO3 for a week, took the picture, then resumed again.

    Most Ludwigia's are color variable if you use low NO3, but if you go too low, you stunt the plant.

    I'd try smaller water changes to see if the tap is really the issue.

    When you say you dose test at 4ppm NO3 etc, you add enough to get to this level or you dose 4ppm per day?

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom,
    I understand your point, but first i want put my tank grow fast and healthy, next i want give color to ludwigia!
    So you suggest I try smaller water changes like 20% week? And add gh booster to make the gh on 4 right?

    Yes I am add 4ppm of no3 per day, my daily regime is 4ppm no3, 1,5ppm po4, 4ppm K+, 1ppm fe, 3ml TMG
    and 0,5gr GH boster after water change make gh on 4 .
    I need change this regime?
    More time with HQI? I have only 6 hours!

    Regards,

    Luís Moniz
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I'd dose maybe that amount every other day at most.

    Shoot for about 1/2 to 1/3 this amount if you dose that daily.
    You just do not have the plant biomass needed for more than this.
    This is partial planted tank.

    Light is fine, 10 hours should do fine.
    Also, raising the light up can help.

    MH lights will burn moss, they are really much better in lower light situations.
    Add some amano shrimps also, they clean moss very well.

    If you had some T5's or PC lights in the hood, that would be nice, you could use those more and only 2 hours of the MH.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom,
    That daily dose i am using now you recomend me remember?
    Let me see if i understand you,
    You are say for have more grow in my tank i need use only half a dose of my dosing rotine right?
    2ppm no3
    0,7ppm po4
    2ppm k+
    1,5 TMG
    0,5 FE

    In the light you recomend 10 hours t5 and only 2 for MH?
    I think my arcuata and my blyxa will be in bad contitions , remember my light have 2xt5 24w and 1x150w hqi and my tank have 130L

    But my question is, if my tank are not grow fast, if i will reduse the dose and the light my plants will not grow faster!
    If i use more light and dose more i will not have more grow?
    Remember I want faster grow and sure good health!

    I think i dont understand well what you say :( sorry! because something here is not right!

    Regards,
     
  12. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi again Tom
    I cant stop read what you sugest and I dont understand why you want i lower my light to have more grow!
    Lower lights setup have lower grow, if i use only 2 hours of MH lights my plants will not grow faster, will yes grow slow, and arcuata blyxa and tenellus will be ugly i guess!
    So please dont forguet I want faster grow!

    Regards,
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    The plants you have are not really high light plants, nor is the tank even fully planted, maybe 1/3 planted.

    There's just not enough nutrient demand to require such heavy fertilizer.

    Moss also tends to do better with cooler lower light temps.

    If you can keep the tank cooler, about 80-82F, then that ought to be fine.
    I run tanks at 82-84 without issue with Xmas moss.

    But I tend to run the lighting lower.
    Still, I have nice stands of moss under 5.5 w/gal of PC in the upper reaches, sitting about 250-300 micro mols of light, about 6" from the bulbs.

    No issues.

    If the tank has ADA AS, you do not need to add so much ferts to the water, it will help to add some, and adding more will not hurt, but there's no need with this specific tank.

    I'd add maybe 10ppm NO3 per week, 2-3ppm of PO4 per week.
    3mls of TMG is fine per day.
    50-60% weekly water change

    The only things that might harm the moss really are super hard water, Sodium in the tap water and lower CO2.

    Are you sure the tank gets enough CO2?
    Moss and riccia both pearl well if there's good CO2, they will not if the CO2 is lacking.

    I'd focus on that.
    You can try using RO water if you want to test to see, but I think CO2, less ferts ought to help, as well as little less light.

    That is a lot more light than the 5.5 w/gal due to the type of light over this tank.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  14. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom,

    But you with that are not give me what i want, I DON'T WANT low light setup!
    I want my plants grow fast!
    MORE LIGHT, MORE NUTRIENTS, MORE GROW!
    that is what i want!

    About temperature i always have my tank on 25ºC so the problem can not be this!

    YES!

    If I do what you are saying i will not have faster grow :(, Ludwigia arcuata needs light and you are saying with 2 hours of MH its ok to make her healthy and preety?
    I dont think so, my tank only with 58w is too low!
    Sorry Tom but I dont undersand your point this time!



    Regards,
     
  15. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Does your light have a just a MH light or does it have T5's in addition to the MH?

    I cannot tell.
    What is 58 W?
    The MH or the T5's or?

    You may want faster growth etc, .......... patience, things will only grow so fast.
    You are adding CO2, high light and nutrients.

    If all you have is the MH, then run it 8-10 hours a day, 10 should be fine.
    To reduce or increase intensity, you can raise or lower the height above the surface.

    You can play around with that.

    You have plenty for dosing nutrients to the water column.
    CO2?

    My moss does very well when I have good current and CO2.
    Or I have fish that eat or rip it up.
    Temp @ 25 C is fine then for any plant or moss I know of.

    Source tap water: do you add any dechlorinator?
    How large are the water changes?

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  16. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Hi Tom,
    Yes my light have T5's in addition to the MH! 2x24w t5 and 1x150w hqi
    Yesterday i already up my hqi to 8 hours and let t5 on 10 hours, today when i arrive at home my tank have so much pearling, very good to see!
    No never use it, just tap water
    60% maybe 70%...

    Regards,

    Luís Moniz
     
  17. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    I just realized that I don't know the dimensions of that tank. I can't see where you told us that, and it is important.

    If your tap water contains chlorine or chloramine, and most tap water does, you should be using a dechlorinator, such as Seachem Prime when you change as much of the water as you do. I don't know that the chlorine or ammonia in the chloramine would affect the plant growth, but just as a good practice, using a dechlorinator for large water changes is a good thing to do.

    One way to handle a problem with a plant not growing as you want it to, is to replace that plant with a similar one that is more likely to grow as you want. For example, Polygonum kawagoneum is a similar narrow leaf plant, but for me it is a fast grower. I have found that I just can't get certain plants to do what I want, so rather than keep fighting it, I just switch to a different plant. There are many, many different plants available today.
     
  18. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Oh sorry I never remember to put setup here!

    Tank: 65x45x45, 130L
    Substract: "ADA" Powersand Special S, Aqua Soil Amazonia, Bacter 100, Clear super, Tourmaline BC, Penac W e P
    Hardscape: ADA Nile Sand, Seiryu Stone, Red Wood
    Light: 1 X hqi 150W ADA MH 8000k, 2 X T5 Philips 965 6500k
    Filtrer: Eheim 2224, 2215 conected
    Flora: Vallisneria nana, Microsorum sp., Bolbitis heudelotii, Blyxa japónica, Echinodorus tenellus, Taxiphyllum barbieri, Vesicularia sp. “Christmas”, Ludwigia arcuata, Eleocharis vivipara, Cyperus helferi.
    Fauna: Paracheirodon axelrodi, Pristella maxillaris, caridina japónica, Neocaridina heteropoda var. red.

    BTW this layout have now 5 months, only from 4 month he start grow better!

    I can buy dechlorinator to test it!

    Regards,
     
  19. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Yes, I would stick with your routine for the lighting for now.
    Make sure that the CO2 micro bubbles get blown around in the current well. Direct the lily pipe to accomplish this. This way those micro bubbles will hit the moss.

    Add dechlorinator!!!!!

    Or, run the tap water through activate carbon prefilter prior to use.

    There is a similar sized tank at a LFs here with the same type of lighting.
    More biomass of plants, but things have come along well.

    Some tweaking of the CO2 and good routine dosing should fix things.
    Try adding 5mls of TMG a day.
    And about 1/3 of the nutrients you have been adding.

    You should see strong pearling after the water change if you use the dechlorinator .


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  20. luismoniz

    luismoniz Prolific Poster

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    Ok Tom,
    Tomorow i will buy dechlorinator, in my local store I think i just can find sera aqutan, but i can order seachem for use later!

    About the dosing 1/3 will give me 1.5ppm of kno3, 0.5ppm of kh2po4 and 2ppm of kcl if i am using now more light are you sure i dont need more nutrients? Why use only 1/3?

    Regards,
     

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