my plant stem is too long :( please help

woodyship

Junior Poster
Sep 30, 2009
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0
1
I need help.
I have a 135G tank. with 500watt lighting.
but my plant stem is too long ( the space between nodes is too big.)
can any one help me in this, what is the problem.

I dose a micro and macro (Poor Man Fertilizer) also i have a PH controler which open and close the bubbles of the CO2 pottel. My PH is set to be 6.9 PH.
Also my light is 8 X 36W 6800 K and 8X24w aquamidic light all are T5,
I use 2 condinser fillteration system.
and a small wave maker.
i used also a mud based and some gravel, and a small amount of flourite.
and some ADA.
i did not use a drop checker

Can you help me please
 

Philosophos

Lifetime Charter Member
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Mar 12, 2009
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Your lighting spread should be excelent. Your column dosing is on the lean side, but I haven't seen that create stunting. The sediment is probably full of nutrients.

Could you give some details about flow in gph? I'm assuming the wave maker creates some nice ocilations.

Don't bother with the pH controller; your tank is going to change its pH quite a bit without the CO2, and that means the saturation of CO2 will be inconsistent. CO2 is hard enough to stablize at desirable levels without having the flow rate change on you.

Get a drop checker; even a cheap one, and some 4kh solution. It's a nice tool to learn with. If you use it with the pH controler you can see for your self what I'm taking about.

-Philosophos
 

jonny_ftm

Guru Class Expert
Mar 5, 2009
821
2
16
Hi,

Hijacking the forum with opening 3 topics on same question, while you were even answered on one of them, won't get you many help. Forums are a place to discuss patiently, not an instant chatroom

My 2 cents
 

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
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South Florida
Hi,

IMO you have way too much light for this tank.

I bet your c02 is either insufficient or unstable or both :) It takes a while to get it down correctly.

I think the high light is drawing the plants towards the light, but not enough c02 is causing the lean look.

I would look into removing a few bulbs but still keep a nice spread and see how that works out.

In the meantime get a DC as advised, drop the controller (as advised), and just use a timer for the c02. Have it come on 60-90 minutes before lights on and go off just prior to lights off.

The lower light will reduce the growth rates and reduce the need for c02.

Can you please elaborate on how you inject c02?

Use the lower light to get the tank optimal in terms of c02 and nutrients. Then you can increase the light while also increasing c02 and ferts.

Re: post from Jonny.

woodyship, let me know if you want the dupes deleted....
 

woodyship

Junior Poster
Sep 30, 2009
6
0
1
hello again

what do you suggest,
adjust the ph controler to 6.5 ?
IMAGE_051.jpg

IMAGE_052.jpg

i use a bubble counter and co2 reactor to difuse the co2 into my water
also, do you suggest to reduce light ?

shall i keep my ph as the image below in order to keep the co2 level 12-15
ph.jpg

Gerryd;42584 said:
Hi,

IMO you have way too much light for this tank.

I bet your c02 is either insufficient or unstable or both :) It takes a while to get it down correctly.

I think the high light is drawing the plants towards the light, but not enough c02 is causing the lean look.

I would look into removing a few bulbs but still keep a nice spread and see how that works out.

In the meantime get a DC as advised, drop the controller (as advised), and just use a timer for the c02. Have it come on 60-90 minutes before lights on and go off just prior to lights off.

The lower light will reduce the growth rates and reduce the need for c02.

Can you please elaborate on how you inject c02?

Use the lower light to get the tank optimal in terms of c02 and nutrients. Then you can increase the light while also increasing c02 and ferts.

Re: post from Jonny.

woodyship, let me know if you want the dupes deleted....
 

jonny_ftm

Guru Class Expert
Mar 5, 2009
821
2
16
I second the light/CO2 equilibrium

Drop light as you were told previously and increase CO2. The PH meter will get you into trouble, despite the theorical benefits. Main reasons are the need for recalibration, an unavoidable deterioration of probes over time and the influence of other parameters on the PH in addition to KH and CO2, especially in soft water with a low KH/GH

10-15ppm is a very low target, especially with your light. 30ppm is the theorical target. 30ppm at the end doesn't mean anything as you can't measure it without an expensive CO2 probe.

In my opinion, drop checker is the best thing to start with and always aim for a geeen lime coulour, not the dark green you target actually. Once you'll learn to observe plants, you won't need a drop checker either, they'll tell you how's your CO2. But, a drop checker will always give a usefull idea on the overall CO2 level.

Tom suggests always to overfocus CO2 and flow and decrease light. For me, it is the key of success. I had issues with all my stems and large nodes. Now, even my H. Polysperma grows slowly with very short internodes distance. If your stems take 15-20cm a day, you'll have a hard time to keep nodes tight. Better target a 15-20cm over 2-3weeks and this will lead you a better equilibrium and nicer healthier plants

Finally, if you could post smaller photos but of a closer shot with less blurriness, we could see if there other symptoms of deficiencies
 

shoggoth43

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jan 15, 2009
1,092
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That is quite a bit of light to deal with. Turn off or remove some bulbs if you can or consider raising the light fixture up.

For the pH controller, just remove the solenoid from it and plug it into a timer that you can adjust independently of the lights. The timer will allow you to ramp up the CO2 so it's roughly where it needs to be right as the lights come on and you can turn it off before the lights go out when the plants start to ramp down for the day. You'll still be able to monitor the pH if you like but it will no longer be in control. Osmotic shock ( hardness changes ) seems the be the killer of fish not so much the carbonic acid pH swings from CO2.

The pH chart you have is not a reliable chart. It will give you rough amounts based on an assumed kH reading. The hardness in the tank can not be assumed to be only that amount as you will also have GH and other acids/bases in there which makes the chart a guess at best and a "known value" you target at worst. Starting the CO2 at a bubble or two per second and observing the fish throughout the day will be your best guide. Wait a week and up the CO2 again. Repeat as needed as this will give you better reading and hopefully you can find a day that you can be around the whole time to observe. When you see CO2 stress in your fish you can back down. The week's time will give everything time to adjust to the new settings.

Patience is required when using CO2 as it's very easy to just crank it to some bubble per second value and cause harm. The temptation is always there....

-
S




jonny_ftm;42594 said:
I second the light/CO2 equilibrium

Drop light as you were told previously and increase CO2. The PH meter will get you into trouble, despite the theorical benefits. Main reasons are the need for recalibration, an unavoidable deterioration of probes over time and the influence of other parameters on the PH in addition to KH and CO2, especially in soft water with a low KH/GH

10-15ppm is a very low target, especially with your light. 30ppm is the theorical target. 30ppm at the end doesn't mean anything as you can't measure it without an expensive CO2 probe.

In my opinion, drop checker is the best thing to start with and always aim for a geeen lime coulour, not the dark green you target actually. Once you'll learn to observe plants, you won't need a drop checker either, they'll tell you how's your CO2. But, a drop checker will always give a usefull idea on the overall CO2 level.

Tom suggests always to overfocus CO2 and flow and decrease light. For me, it is the key of success. I had issues with all my stems and large nodes. Now, even my H. Polysperma grows slowly with very short internodes distance. If your stems take 15-20cm a day, you'll have a hard time to keep nodes tight. Better target a 15-20cm over 2-3weeks and this will lead you a better equilibrium and nicer healthier plants

Finally, if you could post smaller photos but of a closer shot with less blurriness, we could see if there other symptoms of deficiencies
 

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,696
745
113
I'd start with a pH of 6.9 and then work down to 6.8 over 3 weeks and watch the fish close.

Reduce light before you do any of this.
Maybe 250W.

A good target CO2 is 30ppm.
Other issues: not nearly enough starting plant biomass.
There is not much plant mass in your tank.

Regards,
Tom Barr