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Misting Report

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Gerryd, May 13, 2009.

  1. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi all,

    I have been playing around with my Mazzei for the last few months and actually PURPOSEFULLY induced algae and poor growth by shutting down the c02 for a week.

    I wanted to see how the tank reacted and the timing to go bad and then get back to healthy conditions. I used many species, which are detailed in the slideshow :)

    I am totally convinced now that c02 really is the root of >90% of all growth and algal issues... At least I have proven to my own satisfaction...

    Please Tom keep hammering this home...........You have my support....

    I had been using the mazzei to get dissolved c02 and was not using the mist effect as much.

    I feel that plant growth/pearling is better with this method, although it does use a bit more c02 IME.

    Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

    You would never know it but there are at least 250 cardinals in there, with about 50 more in quarantine........

    I really like the mist method and the tank turned around once c02 was established at an optimal level in about 2-3 weeks. Had melting, GSA, BBA, diatoms, poor growth, etc.

    As the c02 came on more, algae began to reduce and new growth stayed healthy. Once the algae STOPS growing, I got ruthless and trimmed any bit of algae.

    I kept my regular dosing and wc schedule as below.

    2 weeks later, tank is very healthy and plant growth is really starting to get going. I have raised my lights 8" and reduced light by about 40% PAR.

    Now running min to max about 30-175 micro moles based on shade, location, etc.

    Am still in grow out phase, as some plants, as you see are just a stem or two.....

    Once these catch up, I can replant......

    One anecdote re: pearling and 02 addition.

    At one point the valves in my plumbing were set so that my two overflows were out of balance. The left weir was reduced about 4 inches and the other was normal.

    This caused my Nu-clear 547 bio canister to drain about 50% each day, and produced a ton of 02 (I assume) via the waterfall and the half empty canister.

    Well, the pearling was just RIDICULOUS!!! Was almost 24/7 with or w/o lights. Just more intense during lights and c02 on. Even if I swished all plants to release clouds of bubbles, were covered again quicky.

    Some stems were unidentifiable due to being covered with pearls. The substrate even pearled when disturbed at an incredible rate. Mosses were shiny and covered with bubbles.....Every bit of moss, algae, etc on any rock or driftwood even pearled.

    Once the valves were readusted and the flow returned to normal, pearling again was the same as before the valve change. No more substrate pearling, etc.

    So I think some support for pearling as an indication of 02 saturation????

    Please correct any mistaken assumptions or facts on my part.

    Later,

    P.S. Dosing EI at 2.5 tsp K and 2 tsp P 3x weekly. TPN about 20-30 ml 3x also. 80% weekly water change. 1.5 tsp gh booster with WC. Prime and excel added on WC day..
     
  2. bsmith782

    bsmith782 Guru Class Expert

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    I did the same thing inadvertantly when I moved my Mini-M to a new office. For roughly a week co2/circulation/lights were all out of whack. I actually got some BBA and Staghorn. After about 2 weeks of my normal routine everything was fine.

    Co2 is the root of all beauty in the tank!
     
  3. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    I think it is basically fact that if you bring more O into the tank then pearling starts earlier. The other benefits are that the fish get more O and also that clarity improves :)

    Another factor in pearling is the temp. The higher the temp, the less O and the longer to O saturation etc. Can make a big difference.

    AC
     
  4. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Nice tank by the way.
    Since I came here, my tank became a beauty too :)
    I find also that Altercanthera Reinkii is the most CO2 sensitive: if the flow is bad or CO2 is low even with a lime green drop check, the foliage will be full of holes if under strong light. Improving CO2 and flow on the foliage corrects the issue in few days without changing the light. I find it a good CO2 indicator plant.


    By the way, where can I get such great looking outlet pipes?
     
  5. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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  6. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Many thanks for the link

    I can buy the small segments and bend them as I like, right? Also, the color on your photos, they are grey and the green natural aspect is due to algae on the long run?

    Many thanks again for helping. I was looking for something nice to replace my ugly pipes and hated the glass lily things because of cleaning in perspective
     
  7. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    The sections are about 5" long and are very flexible.

    Yes, mine were black but the algae issues I induced are still visible on them as they are so close to the light.

    My espei pencils like picking at it, so I haven't cleaned them.

    Am looking to get some nice xmas moss or fissidens to cover them........

    Stuff works great...........

    I split each one of my dual (one on each side) single outlets to 3 on each side, so I now have 6 outlets to direct as I want.........

    If I ever remove my wiers, I will do like Tom does sometimes and run the outlets closer to the bottom UPWARD, rather than top down... Plus they can then be hidden:)
     
  8. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Hi,
    Great idea to run them from bottom to top to be easier to hide

    I just have one last question. My hose are 5/8" (16mm) inside diameter. The segments are too big to fit, even the 1/2" ones. I see no where the external diameter of the adapters. What segments (1/2" I believe) with what adapters (3/8 or 1/4 round nozzle or other adapters?) do you think I should buy to fit on my hoses?

    many thanks again for your help
     
  9. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    Idea is not mine, I got it from Tom............

    Size is up to you......

    What you need to do is get the threaded adaptor connector for the loc-line.

    The one end is where the loc-line connects to. The threaded size you then need another adaptor that goes from the thread size to a barbed nipple end for your flex hose to fit over.....

    Say for instance you got the 3/4 size... You would need one of the first two adaptors shown on this page based on US or UK system:

    modularhose.com - Loc-Line 3/4" ID System Connectors and Adapters

    This will have a MPT thread end on the one end.

    Then you need an adaptor that has a barbed/slip/nipple on one end with a female pipe thread (FPT) on the other. Then the MPT fits into the FPT and you have a connection.

    Your flex hose then goes over the nipple/barbed end.

    Sometimes you may need several adaptors based on the size differences in the tubing..........

    I would get the 3/4 if you are 5/8 ID.

    Hope this helps.
     
  10. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    It's so clear how you explained it.

    many thanks again. All the last days I was looking for something nice-looking and easy to hide to optimize my outlet pipes. I also hated to go the glass lily pipe way.

    I'll order this right now.

    many thanks again for all the info
     
  11. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey all,

    Tom has mentioned that when the tank is in 'recovery mode' that there is a point at which the tank really starts to take off....

    I am seeing the same thing now. C02 has been stable for about 10 days now, and the last 2-4 days, you can see the plants grow day to day and the algae vanish.

    Things had been improving but seemed at a slower rate and a seeming plateau.. Now the rate of improvement is exponential (it seems!).

    Diatom algae (which always leaves last for me) has vanished almost overnight. Growth is much bushier, better, etc. NO NEW ALGAE!!!!!!

    My loc-lines were nice and clean when I started the experiment and were soon covered with algae. I have not cleaned them and they are starting to come back to the way they were. I may have to wipe down, but that's it.

    Stargrass that was melting away 8 days ago are now in a huge bunch and need to be trimmed....Hygro corymbosa angust did NOT react well to c02 loss and when from a huge mass that covered a huge area and was 20" tall (I have pics to prove) to just the 2 little stems 3" tall.

    I have to say that my limnophila aromatica came through with the least amount of algae and poor growth. It also seems to adapt well when dumped into my low tech quarantine tank.

    Now I just need to keep the c02 STABLE........
     
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I have the same types of results and responses as you Gerry.

    There is a delay, I use to call this, referred to it as "plant growth momentum". Once plants get cooking, uptake rates go way up, CO2 demand, growth etc and algae is greatly reduced/a non issue.

    Some take longer than others to get going.

    Some folks claimed it was due to the plants allelopathic chemicals(Parroting what Diana Walstad had speculated in her book 99% of the time, nothing new of their own), but it's more likely gearing up the carbon pathways from highly unstable systems, to stable ones.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Tom,

    I am very glad to hear that.....great company to keep.....

    I remember that you had wanted to study this some more if you had time. Any luck with that???

    I am sure that the number and types of plant species, amount of damage, algae, etc also play a role in the duration of this period. As well as all other factors, light, co2, etc, etc.

    All of this change and experimentation over the last 12-18 months with plumbing and c02 changes, current, flow, c02, c02, c02, etc has taught me a lot.....

    Was difficult and frustrating at times, but totally worth it.

    I spend very little time dosing or even thinking about dosing, except to remember: 'Did I dose already today?' lol

    Next step is the c02 meter..........soon............

    I am DYING to KNOW what my co2 level actually is........Tom has created a monster I think lol

    Thanks again for all of the support from all....
     
  14. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hey,

    I note that the algae on my loc line outlets is vanishing. I can see that there were several layers, so not surprised it is taking time.......

    I want to see how long it takes for ALL of the algae to vanish naturally with no manual intervention. Seems to be working, and they were COVERED with algae.

    Misting experimentation Phase II continues soon with the installation of a NEW pump....lol should be in next week, so next weekend I guess for installation..

    I ran out of c02 over the weekend and disconnected the c02 entirely. I than adjusted the flow to get the out of balance wier condition. Pearling again covered everything, and I did this WHEN THE LIGHTS WERE OFF..... So no c02 for over 24 hours, then remove the c02 tank, then adjust flow when lights are off. Come morning, plants were covered with 02, from every angle. Amazing to look at for sure...........

    When flow was again adjusted back to 'normal' it took over 24 hours for the 'bubbles' to dissipate. Very interesting..........to me at least....

    Later
     
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