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Mist without Ph controller

Discussion in 'Algae Control' started by Grafalski, May 17, 2006.

  1. Grafalski

    Grafalski Prolific Poster

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    Tom.

    I’d like to try dosing CO2 via mist method (already have aquipment for that). I have a Ph controller but I did some reading on the forum and I know some people advice to get rid of it (they might be right because I` not able to kill bba in my tank + I get different Ph readings on my controller = hassle) . It’s probably better to dose CO2 constantly when lights are on.
    Now. What would be a standard “procedure” for that? I have a 29 gallon tank, heavy planted adding 1/4 tspn of potassium nitrate twice a week, 1/16 tspn of potasium sulfate twice a week, 1/4 tspn of magnesium sulfate once a week, macro twice a week 1ml of Plantex CSM + Fe solution and 130 W of power compact light.

    1. When should I turn on and off the mist?
    2. How many bubbles per second?
    3. From noon to 6 pm I have only one 65 W bulb on and my second light is kicking in at 6 pm – 10pm. Should I add more Co2 while both bulbs are on?
     
    #1 Grafalski, May 17, 2006
  2. rrkss

    rrkss Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    Well in my 29 gallon tank my BBA started dying when I used the mist method to provide a constant supply of CO2 and greatly increased fertilizer use. Your dosage looks similar to mine except you are not dosing any phosphates. I dose the following every 3 days.

    1/4 Tsp of Potassium Nitrate
    1/16 Tsp of Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
    1/16 Tsp of Potassium Sulfate

    Every 2 day I dose trace

    5 mL of Seachem Flourish

    Every day I dose Iron

    1 mL of Seachem Flourish Iron

    After waterchanges, I dose all the macros and in addition add 1/2 Teaspoon of Magnesium Sulfate and 1/2 Teaspoon of Calcium Chloride. My BBA started to turn red after about 4-5 days and has since been dying out ever since. I blame the successful reduction in BBA on stable CO2 and adequete nutrient dosing. My photoperiod was also reduced from 12 hours to 10 hours.
     
    #2 rrkss, May 17, 2006
  3. Grafalski

    Grafalski Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    What about Co2? How much you dose?
     
    #3 Grafalski, May 18, 2006
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    Basically you add enough to drop the pH 1.0-1.1 pH units down from ambinet tank water levels.

    I add the mist 15 minutes before lights on and stop it 1 hour before the lights turn off. Most simply add the CO2 with the lighting.

    Stick with steady ligthing or else reduce the high intensity lighting for 2-3 hours.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #4 Tom Barr, May 18, 2006
  5. rrkss

    rrkss Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    My non CO2 pH is 7.4. With CO2 I drive the pH down to the 6.3-6.4 range. It is incredible to watch a problem I was dealing with for 6 months or so literly dissapear before my eyes.
     
    #5 rrkss, May 18, 2006
  6. Grafalski

    Grafalski Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    rrks. How many bubbles /sec do you dose? I can start with 1 - 2 bubble/sec but I`m not sure if it`s good enough.
     
    #6 Grafalski, May 18, 2006
  7. rrkss

    rrkss Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    I am running it at about 1 bubble per second into my venturi diffuser. My tank uses DIY CO2 but given various adjustments to the yeast + baking soda concentrations I get about that rate farely stable for about 6-7 days.
     
    #7 rrkss, May 18, 2006
  8. Skyfish

    Skyfish Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    I have a Milwaukee PH controller too and have been reading everywhere that we should get rid of it. I have it set to 6.3 with a Kh of 4.5, soda added. Tap Kh is less then 2.

    I am starting to think that I have CO2 problem because hair like algae (goes as long as 5 to 6 inches if unchecked and smells too) keeps coming back.

    Getting to the point of this thread...

    If there is no controller and no cut off point, how do we keep the PH at a steady rate of let’s say 6.3? When we inject 2 to 3 bubbles/sec and we reach 6.3/6.2, how do we stop it from dropping further without doing anything manually?
     
    #8 Skyfish, May 31, 2006
  9. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    The number of bubbles per second of CO2 dosing isn't important. It depends on how much surface agitation you have, which outgases some of the CO2, how fine the bubbles you are getting for mist are and how well distributed they are in the tank. Also, a bubble isn't a standard size - it depends on the inside diameter of the tube the bubble comes out of. So, use the needle valve and regulator pressure adjustment to "tune" the CO2 until it stabilizes at the 1 to 1.1 drop in pH. Whatever bubble rate that takes is the right bubble rate for you, and you can then use that number to make sure the CO2 input stays reasonably constant. Mine, in my 29 gallon, CO2 mist tank is about 2 bubbles per second, and I have considerable surface water movement.
     
    #9 VaughnH, May 31, 2006
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    I think what is critical here..............the CO2ppm is stable / or at a higher range.

    So it can be stable at 30ppm.
    Or is can be 20-25ppm to 40ppm.

    Both should give roughly the same growth/result.

    This is why the CO2 when high, does not matter as much as trying to maintain 20ppm within a very narrow range, the reality is that on larger tanks, this is very difficuklt to achieve throughout the tank, smaller tanks should not really bother if you ask me.

    If anyone wants a Milkwakee pH controller, I have a new one for sale for 100$.

    You can set up the pH controller with the mist method, you will need either a powerhead fed mister, or a solenoid to shut the gas if you use a diffuser stone etc.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #10 Tom Barr, May 31, 2006
  11. Skyfish

    Skyfish Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    My tank is 80G and I'm diffusing through an external inline reactor (rex design). The CO2 starts at 7:30am and takes 4 hours to get it to 6.3 and then the controller cuts off. I tried the glass diffuser but one is never enough for my size of tank. When I had a 29G tank it was easier.

    If my KH is 4.5 and PH is 6.3 I get 68ppm, sounds high but the fishes are happy, yet I have small algae problems, no BGA though. When I drop it further to 6.2 or 6.1, the fishes do not go to the surface but hide in the plants, seemingly stressed. Going to take the controller out and see what happens.
     
    #11 Skyfish, May 31, 2006
  12. PeterGwee

    PeterGwee Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    A bad pH probe or an aging one can cause issues as well even when it calibrates well in standard solutions. Some tend to drift fast in one direction and then slower in another. Focusing on the plant growth via observation is still the best in the end as Tom mentioned. Wonder how Amano tweak his CO2?

    Regards
    Peter Gwee
     
    #12 PeterGwee, May 31, 2006
  13. Grafalski

    Grafalski Prolific Poster

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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    OK. I got rid of Milwaukee Ph controller two weeks ago and started injecting Co2 via mist method.
    I can see improvement. BBA stopped appearing on all new leaves. All I have to do now is to prune all older leaves with BBA on them and hopefully my tank is gonna say “Bye” to BBA.
    I used Ph controller with the mist method before but BBA was still growing and it looked to me (like PeterGwee mentioned before) that the PH probe was drifting to lower Ph even though it calibrated well in standard solutions.
    I add 2 bubbles/sec
    Kh 5
    Ph - 6.3 (middle range)

    So far so good.
     
    #13 Grafalski, Jun 2, 2006
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Mist without Ph controller

    Might needed a new probe or reclaibrate it.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #14 Tom Barr, Jun 2, 2006
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