Mission Against HC&Algae. Submerged&Emerged.Cylinder+Excel=Double C02 Final ShowDown!

nipat

Guru Class Expert
May 23, 2009
665
0
16
I did not say if it's over 29 the HC would “defininitely” melt.

I said the references ( Hemianthus callitrichoides ”Cuba” )
have said that the HC temperature range was quite cool (25C optimal).
And if other factors in your tanks were also not preferable for HC,
then I thought the high temp might just make thing worse.
 
B

Brian20

Guest
you try a direct water flow enriched with CO2 directly to HC?

my HC also melts again, but was because the cyanobacteria kill it, it have direct flow enriched with CO2 and was growing well before the dammed Cyano. I want HC again but when I get the koralia:D
 

Biollante

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jun 21, 2009
3,210
1
36
Surprise, AZ
Temperature Is Fine

Hi,

You are welcome!

Do not worry too much about the temperature; Nipat is technically correct on the stated temperature ranges for HC in the literature.

I am with Philosophos, Cuba is a warm place.

As with most things when everything else is correct, a small variation is not significant. Here water temperatures of 30 C are common; HC does seem to do well. I have noticed problems at higher temperatures, if held for weeks at a time.

A fan has been suggested, I find it remarkable, the temperature difference a fan aimed across the surface of the water can make. Air movement is a good thing.;)

I believe you need stronger circulation and of course good CO2 and macro and micronutrients.

Total agreement with the grammatically correct Nipat; dry fertilizers are best.

The suggestion for Tropica + Liquid is a product available in Singapore and you need to do something quickly. Tropica + Liquid also provide reasonable levels of micronutrients. While I would like to dose Nitrates higher, other nutrients would be, in my judgment to high for the critters. Nipats calculators no doubt are superior to my calculations based on label information and experience

Nipat is also correct that Tropica + Liquid is one of the most expensive methods to fertilize your tank.

I strongly disagree with Nipat’s calculations that you will require 9-18 cc per day of Tropica + Liquid.

Seriously, stick to the 15 ml or cc each week I recommended or 20 ml is closer to where I would start, do that if you wish. I dose almost as high as Nipat in some tanks with no critters. I suggested 15 ml or cc to start because it is expensive. I also believe 15 ml per week is the minimum amount that has any chance of being effective.

I should have added, dose ¼ teaspoon Seachem Equilibrium on the 2nd 4th and 7th day after water change.

If you wish and I recommend if you can find a product called Fleet Enema, add 1 ml to the macro dose mixture each week..

CO2, while it is possible to harm critters with CO2, especially pressurized CO2; I honestly can see no evidence of CO2 anywhere close to 30 ppm, which is why I believe you must continue to dose Seachem Excel. I also do not see any reason to increase CO2 flow.

At minimum, you require stronger circulation; my suggestion is more filtration, a better method of getting CO2 into solution, we can talk later if you wish.

Biollante
 

Philosophos

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Mar 12, 2009
1,346
0
36
*edited for math correction*

Biollante;41456 said:
I strongly disagree with Nipat’s calculations that you will require 9-18 cc per day of Tropica + Liquid.

Seriously, stick to the 15 ml or cc each week I recommended or 20 ml is closer to where I would start, do that if you wish. I dose almost as high as Nipat in some tanks with no critters. I suggested 15 ml or cc to start because it is expensive. I also believe 15 ml per week is the minimum amount that has any chance of being effective.

Well I wasn't going to touch this issue, but now I feel as if I have to.

These are the percentages for the more relevant nutrients in TPN:

N: 1.34
P: 0.10
K: 1.03
Mg: .39
B: .004
Fe: .07

TPN+ has a density of 1.04g/ml, and you'll be dosing 15ml. That's going to be 15.6g. This is what 15.6g of TNP+ contains:

N: 209.04mg
P: 15.60mg
K: 160.68mg
Mg: 60.84mg
B: 0.624mg
Fe: 10.92mg

With a 50L column (roughly) this is what you'd be dosing (above nutrients divided by 50):

N: 4.1808ppm
P: 0.312ppm
K: 3.2136ppm
Mg: 1.2168ppm
B: 0.01248ppm
Fe: 0.2184ppm

This will satisfy low end Fe levels, leave your NPK still demanding a lot, and may or may not take care of your Mg depending on your tap water. Personally I'd dose 75ml total a week and top off the K+ with some K2SO4 if you want to do this the simple but expensive way.

If you want to just take care of micros, 15ml/wk will work, though I'd be tempted to bump the Fe up with chelated iron. I'd point out though, that if you're already putting in the effort to dry dose full NPK plus playing with iron, you can just use CSM+B to attain the same nutrients for less money as doing TMG/dry NPK.

-Philosophos
 

Biollante

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Jun 21, 2009
3,210
1
36
Surprise, AZ
Hang In There dna9179

Hi All,

Yes Philosophos I accept your edited math. I guess I figured a bit higher, but you are smarter than I, that is good.

May I be clear the TPN+ Liquid was not my preference. I prefer dry fertilizers. All I am trying to do is give the guy a place to start, with stuff I know is available in Singapore and/or what he already said he had or I can see in his photos.

I rely on no fancy math, not nearly as smart enough, I have none of Nipats famous calculators, not smart enough to tell if they are correct or not. I just think Nipat and anyone else using these calculators need to allow for common sense and possibly experience. I read labels and figure from there.

I meant to offend no one. I was just trying to give the guy a jump start before everything dies of starvation. He, dna9179, stated he had no understanding and based on this thread and his first thread I gave "get started" advice. I figure once he stops starving the plants then he can work on the other things.

It is quite possible, I suppose I deduced, that dna9179 was not all that interested in the science and math, just looking for a nice planted tank, nothing wrong with that. As many of us had in the beginning he started without good counsel and started with some plants that many beginners have problems with, I do not think his LFS did him any favors.

Ultimately we all start somewhere, this is where dna9179 is starting, I am happy he is starting and is persistent.

As I say and have said many times I am no big fan of expensive liquid fertilizers, you pay a lot for water, but they work and there is no reason we should ignore them especially when they are so convenient.

I have been labeled a Nutrient Type, I wear the title proudly. I dose higher than many, I would have recommended a different dosing strategy had other fertilizers been available. Had I been reasonably sure he could straighten out the CO2 issue, I would have recommended higher dosing, I think he will need to boost from there as I have repeatedly stated I am just looking for a place to start.

After the fertilizers, the circulation/CO2 issue is going to need to be dealt with, my experience as well as reading tells me that strong water flow and good CO2 is as important as anything, in this case given the threads I believed it is and was more important to get some nutrients into the system.

Dna9179 feel free to send me a private message or email if you wish my assistance.

Biollante
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
Ok guys, after 1hours of thoroughly reading through everything posts from u guys. I know i need to do something IMMEDIATELY. OK i will come out with a conclusion now.

Thing Is a MUST to provide my tank are: Macro nutrients
Which is NPK

KNO3 = Potassium Nitrate = NPK 13-0-46 = N

KH2PO4 = (has many names) Mono-Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Dihydrogen Phosphate, KDP, Monobasic Potassium Phosphate, MKP = NPK 0-52-34 = P

Potassium K


How about these 2 below? The Epsom Salt i think i can check out with the LFS but how about CaSO4?

CaSO4 = where do i get this from?

MgSO4 = Magnesium Sulphate = Epsom Salt

Micro nutrients
as for this i'm having the seachem trace. Should be ok right?







OK NOW Come to the point on which product i should be getting

I understand that dry fer is cheap and best but in SG it's kind of troubleness for me to look for them and i wanna provide my plant the stuff they need asap.

Unless i can get some 1 in SG to help me with where to get the dry fer i need i will go for dry fer.

for liquid Fer now i know there is 2brand u guys mention.

Seachem and PLANT NUTRITION+ liquid - Tropica
tropica_aquacare_plant_nutrition_plus_liquid_m.jpg


DO correctly me if i'm wrong.

For seachem: I need to get Seachem Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphate 3bottle of them in order to get all the NPK right?

For PLANT NUTRITION+ liquid: This product contain all the NPK all in 1 bottle right?

After getting either 1 of the above, i will be left with CaSO4 and MgSO4 Epsom Salt.

Epsom salt i guess no a problem, but how about CasO4?

So in short i will get either Seachem 3bottle of NPK or PLANT NUTRITION+ liquid Together with Epsom Salt and the CasO4. On top of all these i have my Seachem Trace. So will the above form a team of Full strength for my tank? After i get the confirmation from u guys i will go get the item and will be back here again for the dosing part.

Once again Thanks

 

Gerryd

Plant Guru Team
Lifetime Member
Sep 23, 2007
5,623
20
38
South Florida
Hi Brian,

You can use the seachem NPK products, but note that they will be much more diluted than using dry ferts.

Seachem trace and Tropica plant nutrition are BOTH trace elements. These are NOT used as the source for NPK.

I would try and keep it simple if I were you. I didn't understand 99% of the previous chemistry responses and I don't need to. :)

18 months ago I had the same type of questions and confusion.

I concentrated less on chemistry/testing and more focus on the plants themselves.

I learned to dose dry ferts for my tank and FOCUSED heavily on c02 and reducing my light and general maintenance.

I no longer stress over testing and what ppm of what do I have now.. Don't care as long as the plants and fish are healthy and minimal algae.

Not sure where you are, but if it is legal, I am happy to send you some dry ferts for the N, P, K.

It is so cheap and easy to mix, as Tom states I no longer even think about nutrient dosing.

It is all about light levels and corresponding adequate c02, macro, micro dosing and your maintenance regime.

Hope this helps.
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
Hey Gerryd, thanks for your advice. If it's possible i would like to get the dry fert from u and pay u some amount. my area is in singapore. From this forum i learned that dry fert is more useful and better and of coz cheaper than those liquid bottle ect. But unlike Status, i singapore LFS u will never or hardly find those dry fert like those mention.
 

nipat

Guru Class Expert
May 23, 2009
665
0
16
Hi,

From Tom's reply “Dr Mallick” is the key.
Dr Mallick = The best plant related facilites in town!

From this document http://www.singaporehydroponics.com/images/LUSHGRO.doc
I see all you need there:

LUSHGro-STRAIGHT FERTILIZERS Solid*

Water-Soluble Nutrient Supplements for preparing PMDD - an Aquarist's Dream for preparing fertilizer solution for aquatic plants that is safe on fish and for use anywhere including hydroponics, drip irrigation systems, home gardens, commercial farms, etc.

Ammonium Sulphate, Calcium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Nitrate, Calcium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Potassium Nitrate, Mono Potassium Phosphate (also known as Potassium di hydrogen Phosphate), Potassium Sulphate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sulphur Flakes, Urea - and many more – if we do not have stock, we shall procure for you!

And this is a good Singaporean forum about planted tank.
AquaticQuotient.com
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
!!!!!!!! Oh so just this

LUSHGro-STRAIGHT FERTILIZERS Solid

- Water-Soluble Nutrient Supplements for preparing PMDD - an Aquarist's Dream for preparing fertilizer solution for aquatic plants that is safe on fish and for use anywhere including hydroponics, drip irrigation systems, home gardens, commercial farms, etc.

- Ammonium Sulphate, Calcium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Nitrate, Calcium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Potassium Nitrate, Mono Potassium Phosphate (also known as Potassium di hydrogen Phosphate), Potassium Sulphate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sulphur Flakes, Urea - and many more – if we do not have stock, we shall procure for you!

Just the above will do everything? HEY REALLY THANKS FOR THE LINK,

As i'm busy working and stack up with some stuff so i dun have time to do my own research about what i can get in SG... Really thanks!

So double confirm that LUSHGro-STRAIGHT FERTILIZERS Solid will contain the NPK and those require fert. IT's AIO fert right?
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
anyway is it a dry fert or liquid? I see the Solid there so i guess it's dry?

If it's dry, the dosing part will be easy but it will be hard to know if i have dose the enough amount for each of the N P and K ect right?
 

nipat

Guru Class Expert
May 23, 2009
665
0
16
I think it's probably not all in one. There are other chemicals you don't need or should
avoid to make things too complicate. Start from those 4 things. When you have more
experience you may decide it yourself if you want others or not.

PS. The CaSO4 takes several hours to dissolve. Don't panic if you put it into your tank
and see it not dissolved right away.
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
Hey i read up the links u gave me, i know i can get the lushgrow from them. thanks.
But have any of u guys use the LUSHGro-STRAIGHT FERTILIZERS Solid before? Any idea in dosing and things to take note of?
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
nipat;41488 said:
I think it's probably not all in one. There are other chemicals you don't need or should
avoid to make things too complicate. Start from those 4 things. When you have more
experience you may decide it yourself if you want others or not.

PS. The CaSO4 takes several hours to dissolve. Don't panic if you put it into your tank
and see it not dissolved right away.

i got a Q then, U mean the LUSHGro-STRAIGHT FERTILIZERS Solid contain many different tablet? Or it's a product that include all the fert in 1tablet? how do i dose them? thanks
 

nipat

Guru Class Expert
May 23, 2009
665
0
16
Hey, call them tomorrow and see.
I think they are just separate bags of powder for each fert that
you can choose to buy just what you need.
The name LUSHGro-STRAIGHT FERTILIZERS Solid, I think is just
to categorize their products.
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
oh i see, so if it's separate bags of powder, i will only need to get

Calcium Sulphate, Magnesium Sulphate, Potassium Nitrate, Mono Potassium Phosphate (also known as Potassium di hydrogen Phosphate)

That all right? :) thanks. i'll call them 2moro, hopefully they are open so my HC will't melt of hungry...
 

nipat

Guru Class Expert
May 23, 2009
665
0
16
Should be alright.

By the way, do you have a set of measuring spoons yet?
Buy the one that the smallest spoon in the set is 1/64, like this
Norpro Stainless Steel NEW 5pc Measuring Spoon Set - eBay (item 370240274934 end time Oct-03-09 11:18:06 PDT)

All I can find in Thailand can go down only to 1/4.
I'm not used to Singapore, but here the measuring spoons can be
found in bakery section in supermarket.

However, if your spoon set is like mine (the smallest one is 1/4),
that's still ok, there are workarounds.
 

dna9179

Prolific Poster
Aug 26, 2009
40
0
6
so how much of each bag i need to buy and does it cause alot too? any thing to take note for the LushGro product? I need to get everything right before i make the purchase :)
 

nipat

Guru Class Expert
May 23, 2009
665
0
16
One bag of each should be enough.

Really, I bought KH2PO4 in 1 kg bag and I don't think I'll ever have to buy it again.
These dry ferts is very cheap, a 1 kg of KH2PO4 just cost me 180 Baht (7.597 Singapore
Dollars).