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Mission Against HC&Algae. Submerged&Emerged.Cylinder+Excel=Double C02 Final ShowDown!

Discussion in 'Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here' started by dna9179, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. dna9179

    dna9179 Prolific Poster

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    I'm going to give my tank another try with regards to the HC "Cuba" and the Stupid Hair Algae Challenge!

    Before i carry on i want to thanks all those who help me and give advice regarding the problem i'm facing in the thread before this. LINK

    Guess what, the hair algae totally outgrow my HC, I see hair algae more than my HC and they are not growing well too. After going through the old thread, i decided to give it another try.

    I'm going to carry out the step mention by all the expert in few phrase.

    Phrase 1:
    Today i took out all the HC that is covered by the hair algae and those that grew out from the sand. But no matter what, there is still some hair algae here and there. Not possible to totally remove that.

    I concluded 1fact that why is my tank can be totally infested by hair algae. I believe 1of the reason is because i do not have enough plant to help in taking up all the nutrient therefore the hair algae is getting stronger and stronger. That time i only have HC and some hairglass and the 4 stem plant. The area i plant the stem and hairglass i notice got no algae and the area only with HC is infested with algae.

    This time after i remove all the algae and infested HC, i bought a few time of plant including both Submerged And Emerged HC.

    I bought the 1pot of Glossostigma(small leaf), some red leaf stem plant. together with emerged HC (it's the type that grew on the sponge like bedding) and Submerged HC (It's the type that tight to the metal grid)

    As usual separate the Glossostigma into 5 part from the 1pot and planted them around my stone and cover the gap between the stone.

    I also planted the red leaf stem plant on the right side of my tank.

    Here comes the Main Plant:
    HC aka Cuba.

    Emerged HC (sponge)
    Ok let talk about the emerged HC that grew on the sponge.
    Normally i'll remove the HC from the sponge and plant them into the sand.
    Problem: Uproot and bcoz i place them too far apart, they never sent runner to join up.

    This time i try a different way to plant them. From the original piece of HC i cut them into 2 piece. Then right below the HC where the sponge is, i tear the sponge out until i can see the root of the HC. Then recommend by the lfs directly place them onto the sand and cover the edge with sand.

    From the full view photo below, the 2piece of emerged HC is on the left and right of the tank.

    Submerged HC (metal grid)
    Now the submerged. Again recommend by the NA and Y618 Lfs, they said we can try to place the whole piece of HC in and let them sent runner to cover up. Reason is because when they are in big group, they tend to be stronger and the root is not damage or loosen when we pull them out from the sponge ect. I do not know if it's true but to me no harm trying since i had try to remove them and plant bit by bit and fail.

    From the full view photo below the submerged HC with metal grid is right in the middle foreground. the 1 big piece. Again i cover the edge with sand too.

    Main Photo (Full View)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    To be continue
     
  2. dna9179

    dna9179 Prolific Poster

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    Just an Update to the detail of my tank again
    Tank Dimensions (45x35x35, CM):

    Lighting Intensity(No of Watts) : 16x2 (32)
    Number and type of Lighting (FL/PL/MH) :T5
    Age of light bulbs : New
    No. of hours your lights are on : 10am- 8pm (10 or slightly less)

    Just updated the C02
    CO2 Injection Rate (bps) : about 3 Per second
    Type of CO2 (DIY/Cylinder) :Cylider)
    Method of Injection (e.g. Diffusor/Reactor) :Glass Diffusor
    (I follow the advice and place the diffuser right under my internal filter and let the bubble goes through by pump for a better coverage ect)

    Liquid fertilisers Used :Seachem Trace
    Fertilization regime :2-3day 1dose 1time according to what is needed
    EXCEL! Finally i decided to try out the excel, i can't believe after i buy the cylinder c02, i still go and get this excel to provide the best and additional c02 to the Dear HC...

    I got something to share about the method of dosing the liquid fertilizer.
    I remember i read from some where that people do use syringe to drew up the fertilizer and place them right on top of the plant and apply the solution.
    This way the plant will receive direct supply instead of dosing into the tank and dun know where the solution is running too.

    But as you know the 5ml or sometime even less amount of ml is require to dose, so for my tank with that few patch of HC and plant, 5ml inside the syringe is not going to last before i could apply onto the rest of the HC.
    So i was thinking that maybe i can take out like 500ML of water from my tank, Dose the Excel into the 500ML of tank water, then i use the syringe to drew up the premixed excel solution and then apply to the plant like HC. This way i got more amount of premixed excel to dose fairly among all.

    [​IMG]

    Other fertilisers :multi bottom

    Other additives :Seachem Prime, Tetra Easy Balance 2time weekly(i stop dosing the easy balance for now)

    Type of Filter : Internal Boyu
    When was the filter last washed : Weekly
    Filter media used : sponge (I cut the sponge into 2piece, when i wash the sponge with tank water, i only clean either 1of them)
    When was the media last changed :None


    Age of setup : 2month

    Water surface movement : Normal
    Circulation : Gentle

    Tank Temperature : 29++


    Bioload (Number and type of fish and plants)
    ------------------------------------------
    3guppy
    1oto
    5yamato
    30++ tetra
    8 Baby fries

    I remember some expert told me to dose NPK either from seachem or wondergrow, i do remember but for now i can't affort to get the 3bottle of NPK yet. I would like to see how well the Excel can excel the HC 1st then i will get the NPK when time and money arrive

    Question: currently i'm having C02 from cylinder providing C02 to my tank, So do i still dose Excel "daily" as per recommended on the bottle? Do i dose a bit less since i already providing cylinder C02 or i should just dose as per recommended? I do not want my fishes to die of double C02.

    If i'm not wrong, i can dose this excel when i turn on the light so it can access to the excel when light is on right?

    Really hope to receive advice from the old timer here again like Biollante and others. Thanks for your value comment
    I also posted this thread in the my home forum (aquaticquotient.com/forum) to seek advice from both side
     
  3. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Everything provided in Flourish Trace is already in Flourish at higher concentrations:
    Fertilizer Comparison Chart, by Giancarlo Podio

    If you want to dose NPK without buying all of the individual compounds, try Seachem Equilibrium. It's a dry powder, but it's far cheaper than dosing all three of their bottles.

    The excel will help with the algae. The compound in it (glutaraldehyde) is mildly biocidal and is used as a disinfectant. It can be used to increase the hatch rates of some fish, and it will either slow the growth of or kill any algae. Dose it in the morning if you can.

    -Philosophos
     
  4. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    I don't see N and P in the Equilibrium. Is it a mis-typed:confused:
    Seachem. Equilibrium
     
  5. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Ben Franklin?

    Hi,

    Nipat as is usually the case is correct.:)

    As long as you continue to do the same things you will get the same result. Ben Franklin, the famous Pennsylvanian blogger had some comments on this.;)

    CO2 issue may be being dealt with using Excel; strong circulation for HC is desirable, in lieu of strong circulation dosing plants directly may help.

    You need macronutrients.;)

    Biollante
     
  6. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    N&P aren't in there? I thought they had something like a 14:1:14 sort of deal going. Looks like they've either changed it or I got my notes wrong. Still, it's cheaper than buying their K+.

    -Philosophos
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    RODI Water

    Hi Philosophos,

    As far as I can tell Seachem Equilibrium is principally for reconstituting RODI water and such and is marvelous for that purpose. It is rather high (surprisingly high given its purpose) in potassium so it is a good source there.

    I think the high K is where the confusion comes in to the picture.

    Biollante
     
  8. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    K is Ok

    Hi Philosophos,

    More on Seachem Equilibrium which is principally for reconstituting RODI.

    To my comment:

    It is rather high (surprisingly high given its purpose) in potassium so it is a good source there.

    From the link Nipat was kind enough to provide and if I were educated enough to read first then post, I would not be double posting.:eek:

    Quoting Seachem. Equilibrium

    “Elemental potassium is present at a concentration of 195,000 ppm (19.5%). Archaic fertilizer laws force us to list potassium in terms of equivalence to a material that is not present (K2O) rather than the more scientificaly sound method of simple e lemental equivalence.”

    Biollante
     
  9. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    It looked all around good to me; 3:1 Ca:Mg, with levels that allow you to dose K+ to 19.5ppm without adding more than 2.5ppm Mg and 8ppm Ca. Not really enough for reconstituting RO/DI in terms of ppm Ca, and questionable in terms of Mg, but still great for softer water.

    -Philosophos
     
  10. dna9179

    dna9179 Prolific Poster

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    seriously speaking, i dun understand whatever you guys are talking about.
    Talking about Rocket Science? Lol, U guys are really so into all these term, really expert guys.

    Philosophos and Biollante, i guess it take forever for me to keep up with u guys, seriously the term and discuss going there is like DNA science. lol

    Anyway thanks for having the interest in my thread. great seeing u guys here :)
     
  11. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    I'll simplify it for you:

    Order your fertilizer by individual compounds: KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 for sure, with a possible need for CaSO4 or CaCl2 and MgSO4.7H2O depending on your tap water. If you can't order those compounds (try aquariumfertilizer.com) then try using the seachem line.

    If you're doing the seachem line, you're going to need their N, P, and K bottles. If you have tap water that isn't too hard, get Equilibrium instead of Seachem's K+ fertilizer to save you money. Don't bother with the Flourish trace, but keep using Flourish Comprehensive.

    -Philosophos
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Cheat!!!

    Hi,

    As most can tell English isn’t my best language. If English is not your first language and this doesn’t make sense, do what I do: Cheat! I use Text and Web - Google Translate and Google Translate they are free.

    It really isn’t rocket surgery or brain science, it almost isn’t even biology or horticulture.

    People, usually young men come to me and say “Evil Plant Monster please do not enslave me, I just want to know how I can make your daughter happy?” I say “it is simple give her everything she wants and a little more. It has always worked for me!”

    It is the same with plants; most of the plants people struggles with are actually noxious weeds. All the weed wants is everything it wants and a little more.

    Let me introduce you to Liebig's Law of the Minimum. Justus von Liebig used the imagery of a barrel to illustrate the idea that plant growth is limited by whatever factor, light, nutrient, whatever is depleted first. A cute illustration: Law of the Minimum - Liebig's Law.

    As long as the plants get the fertilizers required to grow and be happy and out compete the alga, but not so much as to harm the critters, you will be happy.

    There really is not much mystery and in fact we tend to over complicate the whole thing.

    I am a Nutrient Type along with an abundance of CO2, personally I target 40 ppm (he says for the record), I also target high on the nutrients, if you buy dry fertilizers as Philosophos suggested, and they are cheap. I also recommend Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Home though I know some countries make it difficult.

    Some people, like Philosphos, are very smart and like to “fine tune” there doses with precision calculating all the intricacies of there water supply and seasonal changes and such like. There is nothing wrong with this approach if that is what you wish to do, I opt for another strategy. The “more-than-enough-without-harming-the-critters-and-big-water-changes-at-least-once-a-week” approach.

    I do not believe you need to know a whole lot about aquatic plants or aquariums in general to have a very nice tank. I know a couple of folks that couldn’t spell akaryum (oddly enough my spell checker knew that was aquarium).:)

    I do not believe there is a particular need for test kits, test equipment including drop checkers and such, unless that is something you enjoy. The plants, your critters, your water and your senses will tell you everything you need to know.

    I will tell you most of the troubles I hear about around here deal with people over thinking the whole thing, that is where I come in, I have no brain, no smarts therefore I cannot ‘over think’ anything.

    If you can’t get certain things you may have to do work a rounds, there is always a way.

    I assume you have read http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/2819-ei-light-those-less-techy-folks.html as well as other articles on EI. If not, please do so now. Do not worry about understanding every aspect for now. This just makes it easier for us to understand each other.

    I do not mind helping figuring out dosing based on plants, critters and set-up; just remember it is just advice on the internet. Though, no one around here is bashful about pointing out misstatements.:p

    I will re-read the threads and will likely have some questions later.

    What do you want out of the hobby?

    Biollante
     
  13. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    One of my jobs is kind of editing books. It might be bad habit from that or, more likely,
    it's my own old habit. :eek:
     
  14. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    How Likely is That?

    Hi Nipat,

    Thanks, more likely, idiosyncratic speech, from the days of my misspent youth.:eek:

    I am less likely to do that again.:D

    Biollante
     
  15. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tropica + Liquid

    Hi,

    Can you get Tropica + liquid? I think it is available in Singapore.;)

    It has to be the “+” as in Tropica + Liquid.

    To start out:

    • In 240ml (1 cup) water mix 1200 mg (1/4 teaspoon) of MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom Salt)

    On water change day (the first day) day 3rd day 6th day (Three times a week) add 5ml (1 teaspoon) of Tropica + Liquid and 80ml (1/3 cup) of the MgSO4.7H2O (Epsom Salt, it may also be marked as the Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate) mixture.

    In a small tank as this, it is manageable. I think you will need to increase the dosing, but start with this.

    Continue to dose the Seachem Excel, I am very doubtful of your CO2 arrangement, we can deal with that another time.;)

    Make sure you are not using Tetra Easy Balance.

    I feel as though I should send this to Nipat for his approval.:eek:
    Biollante
     
  16. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    Seriously, DNA, the cheapest and best way is what Philosophos suggests.

    You might have not noticed yet that there're not much talking about fertilisers that
    you can buy from LFS. Because they are expensive and so diluted.

    If you go with the Tropica Plant Nutrition Liquid + (or TPN+), you have to dose 9-18 cc per day
    to get 2.5-5 PPM of nitrate for your tank size. I think you may be surprised that the dosage is so
    high compared to instruction from the manufacturer. That instruction is written to cover
    wide range of users, most of them have just a tiny lonely Anubias in gold fish tank. For
    heavily planted tank, I mostly see it's used in conjunction with very nutrient-rich soil
    substrate.

    100 cc of TPN+ has only around 1.34 g of N.

    Many people here use standard fertilisers for agriculture. And they call them in chemical
    formula names because it's short and precise.

    Main fertilizers used here:

    [Macro nutrients]
    KNO3 = Potassium Nitrate = NPK 13-0-46
    KH2PO4 = (has many names) Mono-Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Dihydrogen Phosphate, KDP, Monobasic Potassium Phosphate, MKP = NPK 0-52-34
    CaSO4 = Calcium Sulphate or Gypsum = Sak-Kow-Fun in Chinese, it's used to harden tofu.
    MgSO4 = Magnesium Sulphate = Epsom Salt

    [Micro nutrients] The popular choices are one of these:
    Plantex CSM+B (it's a Canadian brand of fertiliser used in hydroponics).
    Tropica Plant Nutrition Liquid
    A Seachem traces product (you're using it)

    I believe you can buy those macro nutrients in Singapore because I see quite a lot of
    Singaporeans mentioning about EI method (Tom Barr's fertilising method—although
    he often says he just modified it from PMDD—an older fertilising method). These fertilisers
    are very cheap. Heck, my $1 of CaSO4 will last a lifetime and I think I will never have
    to buy KH2PO4 (1 kg, $5.14) again. If you can't find them in agricultural shops, try educational
    supplies, they should have them available. They are just basic chemicals.

    When you have all of these, now go to: http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/2819-ei-light-those-less-techy-folks.html
    to find out how much to dose for your tank. Personally, I'd dose half to those listed for
    10-20 Gallon aquariums. Because your tank is around 13 gallon and has small plant biomass.
    You should up the dosage when your plants grow bigger, though.

    The amounts are listed in teaspoon. You should have measuring teaspoons handy, unless
    you must have a 1 or 2-digit digital scale. And convert those teaspoons to grams use
    a calculator (such as Calculating dosages of fertilizer elements for a planted tank )
    But for the sake of convenience and simpleness, buy a set of measuring spoons that can go down
    to 1/64 (your KH2PO4 dosage may be as little as 1/64).

    Oh GH Booster is mainly 2 parts CaSO4 + 1 part MgSO4.
    K+ (Potassium) is already included in KNO3 and KH2PO4, so generally you don't need
    to buy K2SO4 (Potassium Sulphate).

    Usually you have to wait for 3-4 weeks to see improvements.

    Oh, be careful about CO2, because it can kill ;)
    I'd leave it as it is for now. 3 bps is probably more than enough for this tank size.
    Even if bps is not an ideal way to communicate.
     
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    If you use translation engines, you can back translate from English, to your native language, then read that to see if it make sense.

    If not, change a few of the sentences, make them simpler, then try again.
    This makes you look much better and almost like you can write the language you are trying to translate.

    If translation software was really smart/intelligent, it would do several reiterations of this to self correct. I'm hardly software programmer material, but the utility is pretty obvious and something that could/should be done.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    On AQ forums, there are plenty of folks that will help you out locally, offer plants, Dr Mallick's is a popular brand in SG, Lush Grow, but most are cheap and use the dry ferts.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  19. dna9179

    dna9179 Prolific Poster

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    I really wanna thanks Biollante, nipat, Philosophos and finally Tom Barr who advice me greatly in many ways. As this is the 1st time i'm having a tank with no experience, I only can relay on you guys; the expert to guide me.

    Give me some time to read and understand the replies from you guys. I will break them into parts and come out with a list of changes. or things to be done and post here again. Give me some time, I promise i will do what i can understand :)

    PS: The Temp in my tank is around 29, Someone told me it's not possible to grow HC in these temp as they only grow well between 25-28. Is that true? He added if the temp is above 29, no matter what i do the HC will just die off or melt.
     
  20. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    HC was discovered in Cuba, growing around the water line of a river partially emersed. Cuba does not limit its temperature to 29C for the sake of HC. ;)

    -Philosophos
     
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