Miscommunication in Dosing Calculators?

Christophe

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In the wake of the recent interest in micronutrients, and the possible overdosing of them, I’ve noticed something in the conversation:




Tom Barr said:
Note, I think no one really needs to dose 0.5ppm a dose of Traces, .2ppm as a mix of CMS+B/DTPA/FeGluconate at 3:1:1 works dandy for even crazy high light systems if you dose it 3-4x a week.



Daily dosing of 0.1ppm as CMS+B was done for about 2 decades without any issues(Both PPS and PMDD), now suddenly there are issues for a few folks?


ADA also suggest a similar rate.



If you go to any of the common on-line fert calculators and look for the basic suggested EI dose, you get this:





"To reach your target of 0.5ppm Fe you will need to add 2.35 grams Plantex CSM+B to your 307L aquarium to yield:


Element


ppm/degree


Fe


0.5


Mn


0.143


Cu


0.007


Mg


0.107


Zn


0.028


Mo


0.004


B


0.061


dGH


0.025




Dose these levels 2-4 times a week for EI. Classic EI depends on good CO2, good circulation, and regular water changes."








There seems to be a disconnect here — the dosing is drastically different between these two plans. Was there a miscommunication with Wet or Zorfox, or whoever did the original dose calculator? Did they run off with the wrong value, and everyone else followed suit except those who really knew what they were doing?





As an uninitiated noob, I started up working from the calculators, figuring that I wouldn’t end up far astray. Chronically dosing a blend of CSM+B and Fe-DPTA to 1.6ppm-2ppm Fe per week got me to a totally stalled tank in about 6 months. The only thing that got it unstuck was a drastic reduction in Fe/micros. As I work through the problem, I’m getting back to where Tom’s quote above is about the right level, 0.6ppm or so Fe per week, from a blend of CSM+B, Fe-DPTA, and Fe-Gluconate.





Thoughts? Discuss...
 

Pikez

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Christophe - I was dosing 0.5 ppm (Fe from CSM+B) six times a week at one point. Some plants like Blyxa were fine. Many were very unhappy. I concluded that was trace overkill.


I titrated down over a year or two from 3 ppm per week down to 0.6 ppm per week, spread out over 2 or 3 doses per week. My tank is pretty happy, growing, and algae-free at this level. This goes along with Tom's second quote from above.


I am currently at 0.3 ppm per week and I suspect that it is too low. I will probably go back up to 0.6 ppm per week.
 

burr740

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Couple years ago I jumped right in to EI dosing .5 csmb and a dash of dtpa for good measure, 3x week. The results were catastrophic, and it took many months to realize what the problem was. Still figuring it out tbh, but in general things do fairly well around .3 - .4 from traces, and another .1 or .2 Fe per week....or thereabouts.

Pikez said:
I am currently at 0.3 ppm per week and I suspect that it is too low. I will probably go back up to 0.6 ppm per week.
Do you think it is too low on Fe or micros in general?
 

fablau

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I used to dose 0.4ppm Fe from CSM+B per dose every other day with WC every two weeks, and plants were doing good until I got stalled and began having BBA, etc... Then I tried the detox 3-4 months ago, and worked great at the beginning, but then was disastrous, and kept being bad until I got back to 0.4ppm Fe from CSM+B as before but now I am trying to perform WC every week.


I have explained in detail my story here below, but I guess if you have hard water you may need to dose more traces:


http://www.barrreport.com/forum/barr-report/aquatic-plant-fertilization/233214-need-a-little-help-dialing-in?p=235040#post235040


I will keep dosing this way until I see my tank stabilized, or unless I see any adverse effects, but so far so good. Then I will try to reduce a little step-by-step... But as you see, my dosing of 0.4ppm Fe per dose every other day is not that far from what the calculator suggest dosing!
 

Christophe

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What I'm wondering is how the calculators came to recommend a dosing range that even Tom, the biggest proponent of EI, doesn't use. Why isn't the base recommendation 0.5ppm Fe PER WEEK? Where did 1-2ppm per week come from?
 

Pikez

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burr740 said:
Couple years ago I jumped right in to EI dosing .5 csmb and a dash of dtpa for good measure, 3x week. The results were catastrophic, and it took many months to realize what the problem was. Still figuring it out tbh, but in general things do fairly well around .3 - .4 from traces, and another .1 or .2 Fe per week....or thereabouts.


Do you think it is too low on Fe or micros in general?

burr - I don't know that yet. Since the tank did so well at 0.6 ppm per week, I'm guessing that's my tank's sweet spot. At 0.3 ppm per week, I suspect I will run out of some traces sooner or later. Probably not iron. We'll see. I did myself a huge favor by lowering lights by a third before going to 0.3 ppm. So demand is lower too.
 

SwampGremlin

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I need to look into this more myself i only dose iron on the day after water change day only with csmb .... But everything seems to be doing great maybe it could be doing better. But there is so many variables in my head like substrate strength dirtyness of the tank substrate...plant mass ect


.Maybe the bottom portions of my pantanal you be fuller it indose more iron who knows maybe ill increase me doses and see what it does.


Right now im using flourish iron i have left over from awhile ago and i do the reccomended dosage once a week
 
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