Micro Fertilizer DIY Formula

wasserman

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I am thinking to create a DIY version of a micro fertz.

Is it possible to mix the below dry solution to create the DIY version of micro fertz.
- B ==> from H3BO3
- Cu ==> from CuSO4
- Mn ==> from MnSO4
- Mo ==> from H2MoO4
- Zn ==> from ZnSO4
etc

can i mix all the dry solutions into one Micro fertz solution?

it would be very wonderful if someone could share the formula :D

thanks
 
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Biollante

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I Think I Can, Just Not Sure I can Avoid Old Gasbaggism.

Hi,

I will give the smart folk a little more time; they probably know a better way.:eek:


Do mind sharing where you are?

Can you get a chelating agent such as EDTA or DTPA?:confused:


Then if I can think of way without being an old gasbag to explain it, I will try.

Biollante
 

wasserman

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Hi

For the sake of equal distribution of knowledge, I believe being a gasbag is a wonderful thing :cool:
I live in Bali, Indonesia.
I can get EDTA chelator here fortunately.

It is quite challenging to get Micro fertz here in Indonesia with EI spec.
There I would like to create my own DIY version :D

I think by mixing all those chemical can be a one good micro fertz

Thanks
Hans
 

Gilles

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Hans,

Sending a shipment from the Netherlands to Indonesia costs about €17,50 (or about 22$). I have CSM+B by the kilograms, as well as KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, MG7.SO4, CaNO3 etc. Let me know if you want to buy some from me, i would be happy to ship it to you, however the risk that they find the powders suspicious is yours :)

Regards,
Gilles
 

Biollante

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Some Fake CSM+B

Hi Hans,

I am pleased you take my gasbag ways as they are intended, to be informational.
:cool:


Having EDTA available makes it easier but chelators abound.:)


I have made micro fertz in the past… I never really tried putting them together like this it is rather interesting.


I am doing a bit of calculating and making sure, I can do whatever I say you should.



Do you have iron? Actually, iron is one of the easier ones to fake if necessary. Governments have yet to figure out how to ban rust.

I am assuming Epsom salts are available.

Biollante

 

wasserman

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Gilles;78985 said:
Hans,

Sending a shipment from the Netherlands to Indonesia costs about €17,50 (or about 22$). I have CSM+B by the kilograms, as well as KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, MG7.SO4, CaNO3 etc. Let me know if you want to buy some from me, i would be happy to ship it to you, however the risk that they find the powders suspicious is yours :)

Regards,
Gilles

Hi Gilles
Importing CSM+B from you is one of the best options available, please let me discuss it with my folks here to have cheaper shipping cost (i hope :D)

I realize Bali has been pretty tight about chemical products since the bali bombing a few years ago...
However, if they do suspect me, i would ask them to taste a little bit to make sure :devilish: (please make sure you put something fishy in the solution :devilish:)

I'll get to you with the result gill.

Dank je wel
Hans

Biollante;78987 said:
Hi Hans,

I am pleased you take my gasbag ways as they are intended, to be informational.
:cool:


Having EDTA available makes it easier but chelators abound.:)


I have made micro fertz in the past… I never really tried putting them together like this it is rather interesting.


I am doing a bit of calculating and making sure, I can do whatever I say you should.



Do you have iron? Actually, iron is one of the easier ones to fake if necessary. Governments have yet to figure out how to ban rust.

I am assuming Epsom salts are available.

Biollante


Hi Biollante

Fortunately, I have access to get the iron though it is Fe-EDDHA.
I am planning to ask my friend if they have Fe-EDTA, otherwise I have to mix them myself.

So, is it okay if I mix H3BO3 to get B, ZnSO4 to get Zn, etc?
Once it is okay, I will go to the next step...Calculation... ;)

Thank you for your information
Hans
 

nipat

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I'm in Thailand. Importing chemical fertilizers requires paper here.
Not for fear of making explosive (except urea, of course),
but mainly for protecting farmers from low quality, not up to standard ferts.
Although I think I've been hearing complaints of counterfeit ferts,
even with that regulation from time to time. ;)

So I've been mixing my own traces mix by finding the traces mix product
with lowest Cu ratio and build from there. The lowest I could find has higer
Cu ratio than the CSM+B. So I diluted it and complemented it with other stuffs:
Fe-DTPA 7%, Mn-EDTA 13%, Epsom Salt, ZnSO4.7H2O, H3BO3,
and (NH4)6Mo7O24·4H2O.

Well, I believe if you could access to Fe-EDTA or Fe-DTPA. You're sorted then.
Because it's the only one that really needs to be chelated. If I remember it right,
the only chelated stuff in pfertz's traces is Fe, other ones aren't.

Since you're not going to build your traces mix from an existing traces mix product.
The mixing formula depends on how often you want to dose (7x a week or 3x a week).
And the percentage of your chelated Fe. And what level of each element you're aiming for.
(I'm mimicing CSM+B).

To reach the equivalent amount of nutrients from CSM+B, the whole mass of
my traces mix is considerably heavier than CSM+B. It is mainly from chelating agents.
I start to think chelating agent may add to DOM (dissolved organic matter)
and becomes bio-load. So if you can get CSM+B from aboard, that would be
the best way.
 
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Biollante

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A CSM+B Knock-off

Hi Hans, All,

I was trying to do something fancy, but it got too involved.:eek:


A do-it-yourself version of CSM+B, none of the measurements are terribly critical, the Copper and Boron are the most dangerous. The EDTA serves as both a chelating agent and filler, making up 59.9% of the product (64% of CSM+B).

I have not used this myself and am just beginning tests, so obviously use at your own risk. I have done this with a couple of variations, I will get into one later, specific to Hans’ situation.


Since I started with the ingredients Hans has available that are what I used. Since the hydrates were not specified, I went with the most common hydrates.

For those concerned with sulfate, this recipe contains 10.2% sulfates, and given the quantities added to the aquarium, I seriously doubt any adverse effect. Of course, it is also providing 6.86% plant-friendly Sulfur.

Thorough mixing is the main “trick,” all full of good intentions I started with mortar and pestle and ended with TheLoudCreatureWhatSharesMySpace’s spice grinder…

This recipe results in one kilogram of product and allows for weighing in 1-gram increments a scale that reads to 0.1-gram is sufficient, as long as care is taken with the Copper and Boron, there really is not any great danger. Obviously, the recipe can be scaled (up or) down.

I found in a couple of runs that grinding, mixing and homogenizing the iron, Manganese, Copper and Zinc with the EDTA first, then adding the other ingredients seemed to work best.

Generic form,
EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------599-grams
MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, ------------152-grams
Fe[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]3[/SUB]●3 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Iron (III) oxide tri-hydrate, Rust-----------------------------------132-grams
MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese sulfate penta-hydrate ----------------------------- 89-grams
ZnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Zinc sulfate hepta-hydrate----------------------------------------- 18-grams
H[SUB]3[/SUB]BO[SUB]3[/SUB], Boric acid-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-grams
CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue)------------------------------ 4-grams
H[SUB]2[/SUB]MoO[SUB]4[/SUB], Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum------------------ 1-gram



59.9% EDTA
10.2% sulfate (3.4% Sulfur)
7% Iron (chelated)
2%Mangenese
1.5% Magnesium
.87% Boron
.41% Zinc
.1% Copper
.06% Molybdenum


A couple of comments and substitutions later…:)


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Biollante

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Iron Sulfate

Hi,

In real life Iron sulfate is easier to come by at the local garden shop.


Iron sulfate is usually available as the hepta-hydrate, FeSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, it will appear green(ish). Heat it to 90⁰ C and it will eventually turn white(ish) to colorless and becoming the monohydrate.

Iron (II) sulfate hepta-hydrate version, a lot less EDTA.
EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------382-grams
MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, ------------152-grams
FeSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Iron (II) sulfate hepta-hydrate, ---------------------------------------349-grams
MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese sulfate penta-hydrate ----------------------------- 89-grams
ZnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Zinc sulfate hepta-hydrate----------------------------------------- 18-grams
H[SUB]3[/SUB]BO[SUB]3[/SUB], Boric acid-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-grams
CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue)------------------------------ 4-grams
H[SUB]2[/SUB]MoO[SUB]4[/SUB], Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum------------------ 1-gram


38.2% EDTA
22.3% sulfate (7.4% Sulfur)
7% Iron (chelated)
2%Mangenese
1.5% Magnesium
.87% Boron
.41% Zinc
.1% Copper
.06% Molybdenum



Biollante
 

Biollante

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Borax

Hi,


Borax (Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]4[/SUB]O[SUB]7[/SUB]•10H[SUB]2[/SUB]O) may be more accessible and cheaper than Boric acid, though it does add a bit of Sodium.


Borax and Iron (II) sulfate hepta-hydrate version, a lot less EDTA.
EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------380-grams
MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, ------------152-grams
FeSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Iron (II) sulfate hepta-hydrate, -----------------------------------349-grams
MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese sulfate penta-hydrate ----------------------------- 89-grams
ZnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Zinc sulfate hepta-hydrate----------------------------------------- 18-grams
Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]4[/SUB]O[SUB]7[/SUB]•10H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Borax------------------------------------------------------------------ 7-grams
CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue)------------------------------ 4-grams
H[SUB]2[/SUB]MoO[SUB]4[/SUB], Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum------------------ 1-gram


38% EDTA
22.3% sulfate (7.4% Sulfur)
7% Iron (chelated)
2%Mangenese
1.5% Magnesium
.84% Sodium
.79% Boron
.41% Zinc
.1% Copper
.06% Molybdenum



Biollante
 

Biollante

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Monohydrate Rather Than Pent-hydrate

Hi Hans,


I used MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese sulfate pent-hydrate in the formula; I have been told that the monohydrate, MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is the most common form available for fertilizers. If your Manganese (II) sulfate is “pinkish,” it is the monohydrate.

Generic form w/ MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O ,
EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------626-grams
MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, ------------152-grams
Fe[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]3[/SUB]●3 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Iron (III) oxide tri-hydrate, Rust[SUP]3[/SUP]----------------------------------132-grams
MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese (II) sulfate monohydrate --------------------------- 62-grams
ZnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Zinc sulfate hepta-hydrate----------------------------------------- 18-grams
H[SUB]3[/SUB]BO[SUB]3[/SUB], Boric acid-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-grams
CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue[SUP]4[/SUP])------------------------------ 4-grams
H[SUB]2[/SUB]MoO[SUB]4[/SUB], Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum------------------- 1-gram


62.6% EDTA
9.1% sulfate (3.4% Sulfur)
7% Iron (chelated)
2%Mangenese
1.5% Magnesium
.87% Boron
.41% Zinc
.1% Copper
.06% Molybdenum



I gather there is no particular interest in this discussion of alternatives to variuos fertz.


Biollante
 

Biollante

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Probably the Closest to Real, Live CSM+B

Hi, This is probably the closest to real, live CSM+B. Zinc oxide, ZnO is readily available in many places and for those concerned adds no sulfate. Solubor, Na2B8O13 ● 4H2O is a readily available substitute for Borax and is what many add to “CSM” to get the “+B.” Solubor also adds half the Sodium of Borax. Generic form w/ Mn (II) SO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, ZnO, Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]8[/SUB]O[SUB]13[/SUB] 4H[SUB]2[/SUB]O EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------634-grams MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, ------------152-grams Fe[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]3[/SUB]●3 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Iron (III) oxide tri-hydrate, Rust[SUP]3[/SUP]----------------------------------132-grams MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese (II) sulfate monohydrate --------------------------- 62-grams ZnO, Zinc oxide---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-grams Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]8[/SUB]O[SUB]13[/SUB] 4H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Solubor ----------------------------------------------------------- 4-grams CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue[SUP]4[/SUP])------------------------------ 4-grams H[SUB]2[/SUB]MoO[SUB]4[/SUB], Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum------------------- 1-gram 63.4% EDTA 8.5% sulfate (2.9% Sulfur) 7% Iron (chelated) 2%Mangenese (chelated) 1.5% Magnesium .8% Boron .44% Sodium .4% Zinc (chelated) .1% Copper (chelated) .06% Molybdenum Oh well last variation, sorry for boring everyone...:nonchalance: Biollante
 
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Biollante

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Probably the Closest to Real, Live CSM+B

Hi,

This is probably the closest to real, live CSM+B.

Zinc oxide, ZnO is readily available in many places and for those concerned adds no sulfate.

Solubor, Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]8[/SUB]O[SUB]13[/SUB] ● 4H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is a readily available substitute for Borax and is what many add to “CSM” to get the “+B.” Solubor also adds half the Sodium of Borax.

Generic form w/ Mn (II) SO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, ZnO, Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]8[/SUB]O[SUB]13[/SUB] 4H[SUB]2[/SUB]O
EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------634-grams
MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, ------------152-grams
Fe[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]3[/SUB]●3 H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Iron (III) oxide tri-hydrate, Rust[SUP]3[/SUP]----------------------------------132-grams
MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese (II) sulfate monohydrate --------------------------- 62-grams
ZnO, Zinc oxide---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-grams
Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]8[/SUB]O[SUB]13[/SUB] 4H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Solubor ----------------------------------------------------------- 4-grams
CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue[SUP]4[/SUP])------------------------------ 4-grams
H[SUB]2[/SUB]MoO[SUB]4[/SUB], Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum------------------- 1-gram


63.4% EDTA
8.5% sulfate (2.9% Sulfur)
7% Iron (chelated)
2%Mangenese (chelated)
1.5% Magnesium
.8% Boron
.44% Sodium
.4% Zinc (chelated)
.1% Copper (chelated)
.06% Molybdenum

Oh well last variation, sorry for boring everyone...:nonchalance:


Biollante
 

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No it is really interesting! Could you also use Ferrous Gluconate instead of FEIII ? I think you need a chelator right?
 

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For the record.

You were on a roll - I was standing back out of respect.

Great stuff Bio. Very liberating really. :loyal:
Aquatics clubs could do great things with this information.
 

Biollante

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Repurposing

Hi,


Thanks Tug, Gilles.


The main purpose of this is to suggest alternatives for people that have a hard time getting fertilizers. I have been gathering information for quite a while as many members live in places that restrict the access to fertilizers and so much of the advice and calculators are based on “standard” products and dosing. Hans’ thread provided that opportunity; at the same time, I catch a lot of flak from angry folks who do not like the presentation of ideas and the use of complete sentences. Go ahead and mention erythromycin…


Micronutrients have always been a particular problem.


I have a series more or less ready to go on substitutions with various products and alternative methods of “chelation.”


As to cost, what I have done so far is not particularly cost effective and it requires a good bit of time. I do not think the ever-gracious Julia Adkins at Planted Aquarium Fertilizer has anything to fear.


For me it is interesting to see the things we can use and for the do-it-yourselfer, I think it is an area to be explored. I also think this might be an interesting area for a club or small group to explore using “found” items. In our family we call it repurposing, as in “Biollante if you have been REPURPOSING my stuff again I will beat the snot out of you!!!”

So do not toss those old rusty nails just yet.


Biollante
 

Biollante

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Idealized recipe meets the Tom Barr recommended 5:1 Fe: B

Hi,

In this “idealized” iteration, I am using readily available Fe[SUB]3[/SUB]O[SUB]4[/SUB], Iron (II, III) oxide for the iron.


Since Plantex Nutritrace CSM has 7.0%, Iron and the Tom Barr recommended 5:1 Fe: B requires 1.4% Boron.
"Plantex Nutritrace CSM™," “CSM” stands for Chelated Secondary Micronutrient comes without Boron, hence the “+B” is added by the remarketer, popular aquarium plant fertilizer marketers mix 1 part Solubor to 25 parts Plantex Nutritrace CSM™. This dilutes the product by 3.8% reducing the iron to 6.73% while adding 0.8% Boron.


This idealized recipe meets the Tom Barr recommended 5:1 Fe: B. While maintaining a full 7% iron.

Idealized form:

Note: 150-grams of EDTA are required (being safe) the rest 603.6-grams in this case cornstarch, C[SUB]12[/SUB]H[SUB]22[/SUB]O[SUB]11[/SUB] can be substituted. Cornstarch adds a bit more organic material than EDTA but in the amounts we use for micronutrients, it is negligible.

EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------753.6-grams
MgSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●7H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, -------------152-grams
Fe[SUB]3[/SUB]O[SUB]4[/SUB], Iron (II, III) oxide ----------------------------------------------------------------- 9.7-grams
MnSO[SUB]4[/SUB]● H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Manganese (II) sulfate monohydrate ----------------------------- 62-grams
ZnO, Zinc oxide----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-grams
Na[SUB]2[/SUB]B[SUB]8[/SUB]O[SUB]13[/SUB] ● 4H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Solubor --------------------------------------------------------------- 6.7-grams
CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB]●5H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue)--------------------------- ----- 4-grams
H[SUB]2[/SUB]MoO[SUB]4[/SUB], Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum--------------------- 1-gram


75.4% EDTA
8.5% sulfate (2.9% Sulfur)
7% Iron (chelated)
2%Mangenese (chelated)
1.5% Magnesium
1.4% Boron
.75% Sodium
.4% Zinc (chelated)
.1% Copper (chelated)
.06% Molybdenum



Biollante
 

Biollante

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C12H24FeO14●2 H2O

Gilles;79108 said:
No it is really interesting! Could you also use Ferrous Gluconate instead of FEIII ? I think you need a chelator right?

Hi

Yes, I think you can easily substitute Ferrous Gluconate, C12H24FeO14●2 H2O.
:)

In ferrous gluconate, properly Iron (II) gluconate, the gluconate, properly Gluconic acid, C6H12O7, the sugar in honey and fruits, is the chelate.

The problem is that gluconate is a much weaker chelate then EDTA.

I have not tried this and I am do not smart enough to know whether the excess EDTA picks up any of the iron from the weaker gluconate.
:confused:

I suspect this formulation is definitely better for lower pH and daily dosing.
:)

Idealized form with Ferrous Gluconate:

Note: The copper sulfate, Manganese (II) sulfate, and Zinc oxide need to be ground together with the EDTA first.

EDTA, Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid-------------------------------------------159.3-grams
MgSO4●7H2O, Magnesium sulfate hepta-hydrate, Epsom salt, ----------------152-grams
C12H24FeO14●2 H2O, Iron (II) gluconate --------------------------------------610-grams
MnSO4● H2O, Manganese (II) sulfate monohydrate ----------------------------- 62-grams
ZnO, Zinc oxide------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5-grams
Na2B8O13 ● 4H2O, Solubor -------------------------------------------------------- 6.7-grams
CuSO4●5H2O, Copper sulfate penta-hydrate (blue)-------------------------------- 4-grams
H2MoO4, Molybdic acid or dihydroxidodioxidomolybdenum--------------------- 1-gram


16% EDTA
8.5% sulfate (2.9% Sulfur)
7% Iron (chelated)
2%Mangenese (chelated)
1.5% Magnesium
1.4% Boron
.75% Sodium
.4% Zinc (chelated)
.1% Copper (chelated)
.06% Molybdenum


Biollante
 
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