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MgSo4 ?

Discussion in 'Marine Plants - Macroalgae' started by pelmato, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. pelmato

    pelmato Junior Poster

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    Hi
    here my tank, about 1years old.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    thing going find except a little cyano burst...im adding KNO3 for keep it about NO3 2ppm for the moment and the system is well responding.

    but is my question.

    i got MgSo4 from Planted Aquarium Fertilizer (been 2 years now, may bee more)
    my Mg in the tank was at 900ppm and my Ca low etc...
    i take a calculator: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

    So, for add +100ppm of Mg in my ~12gallons i need too put 44grams of MgSo4.
    after adding slowly (18hrs) my mix (RO water+ 44gr MgSo4) my Mg is now at 1170ppm !!

    thats not +100ppm it is + 270ppm (not a bad thing, but way far over that i expect)
    it like adding 120.9 grams insted of 44grams...

    Do MgSo4 from PAF is more concentrate that the on sell in drug store ? (i don't think so)

    could be insted of "epsom salt (MgSo4)" that i received "Magnesium chloride" ??
    i remark that the powder that i have, is smaller then regular "drug store" epsom salt.... could be ?

    Do you have a trick for identify the product ?


    thanks ! ;)
     
    #1 pelmato, Feb 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2010
  2. richardsantink

    richardsantink Lifetime Charter Member
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    Very nice tank!

    :)

    R
     
    #2 richardsantink, Feb 1, 2010
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I think there's a good ratio of the types of Mg salts used over at RC forums.
    You do not want to use all MgSO4.

    Not sure if that might also apply to FW, who knows, few report issues in FW using only MgSO4.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #3 Tom Barr, Feb 2, 2010
  4. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    There are different forms of MgSO4 salts, depending on the water included. It could be you have a more dry form
     
    #4 jonny_ftm, Feb 2, 2010
  5. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi,

    From Planted Aquarium Fertilizer, the MgSO4 is going to be the Heptahydrate of Magnesium Sulfate, MgSO4.7H2O. Listed as Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate Heptahydrate) on the referenced calculator. It is almost impossible to keep MgSO4, Magnesium Sulfate, when exposed to the atmosphere.

    I would think the Magnesium chloride would not appear as crystalline as Epsom Salt would. So, I think it would be a rude error to mistake Magnesium chloride for Magnesium Sulfate.

    The Epsom Salt from any reputable source ought to have the same rough purity levels and should be generally indistinguishable from each other, aside from packaging and price.

    Biollante
     
    #5 Biollante, Feb 2, 2010
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    #6 Tom Barr, Feb 3, 2010
  7. pelmato

    pelmato Junior Poster

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    thank for all your reply, very appreciated !

    i have 3 bag, the 3 are the same granularity and aspect.
    it is quit crystalline.
    hmm... lets say that, strange thing happen, sometimes...

    i will do a standard solution, to confirmed or not, the higher range... :confused:

    great link tom thank.
    http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php
    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/229/4714/653

    i could simply do a water change for keeping the 14g balance.
    but my goal is to maintain the stability, without WC for at lease 6 mount.
    if i can do that, i will probably change my 200g FW into a "kind of" macroalgua/fish/LV tank.
    My RO have a real hard time here whit my well water... 2-3 week and the micron/carbon cartridge is stuck whit rust :mad:
    cant use it...and pay 3-4$ for each 5gallons of RO/DI...do not fit in my budget. (for a 200g tank)

    By the way, a friend of mine, a original old school man suggest me to used "green clay" in a low flow filtration. :gw
    its supposed to greatly help balance... if you have idea or comment about that, your all welcome. (i know, its not in vogue)
    maybe i will give a try some day.

    tank for reading :)
     
    #7 pelmato, Feb 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2010
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Why of earth would you try not to do a water change on such a small tank?
    I could do a water change, spend less time and $ than it takes for you test and measure things out. Even then, the tank would look much better than anyone's no water change tank if the WC's are done consistently, say 25% weekly etc.

    Then you do not need test kits, stability is extremely high, no special equipment or dosing needed.

    Very simple, no techy background is required either.

    For a large marine tank, this is not practical, but for a few $, and such a small tank, it's simply not worth the trouble, do a water change and be done with it. Might take what? 5 minutes tops and wait a bit for the mix to dissolve fully before adding it.
    Not so practical for a 400 Gallon tank, but this?

    You bet.

    30$ worth of salt will give you 3 month's worth of large weekly water changes.

    Green clay is likely greensand, acts like carbon and absorbs, many use to use it in aquarium planted tanks in the past.
    I'd not use it for either FW or salt water.

    Better things around.

    RO is fine for drinking water, unless there's really something bad in the well water, I'd just use that for the tanks.
    Hard water planted tanks work very well.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #8 Tom Barr, Feb 4, 2010
  9. pelmato

    pelmato Junior Poster

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    absolute right, 100% whit you!


    i think i already say it :)
    want to see if it can be done...i don't want to put, let's say 2000$ in a 200g tank, without have i good idea of what, will or can possibility end up whit.

    may be my english is not enough good to understand 100% what you said or what i want to tell.


    Yes that the main reason, why i test in that 14g.

    i use this water for my FW it working well, no problem, just ad KNO3 and CO2 (can see the result in my signature)
    for the last 4years my water (well) was good, but for about 2years now it start to smell like egg... more and more...
    so i don't think that the quality will increase in the future, probably going too be worst and end up whit a sodium treatment or whatever its cal...
    or may be its just paranoia :D

    hmm, you made me think (will i'm writing) if i let my water aerate, the smell disappear ...of cours..its a gaz...(and rust go to the bottom)
    hmm, the organic waste still may be a problem...have a good surface protein forming whit my water...

    will think about that..and may be when i'm satisfied whit the 14g no water change test...i'll go whit a WC routine whit 100% well water... to see the difference of the 2 world.

    my head hurts :p

    :)
     
    #9 pelmato, Feb 4, 2010
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    So this is more a test model for the 200 Gallon aquarium coming later?

    Then yes, this is a good idea.

    I think there are some real differences however. One is the temperature is far more stable with a larger tank.
    Also, the light will be much different, more efficient and lot more heat in the 200 Gallon tank.

    For macro algae, I would target 5 ppm of NO3 and "pulse" 0.2ppm of PO4 2-3x a week.
    Mg can be kept high, use a mix , not just MgSO4.

    Like coral, many macro algae produce CaCO3 for their structure, often pulling out as much as coral for growth of their structure.

    So alkalinity and Ca++ levels will also be important.
    I do not think you will need a skimmer if the macro and marine plants are well cared for. You may still chose to run a skimmer, but you will not get much out of it, even a really well run skimmer and an expensive $$$ model etc.

    Another idea is to search the threads here for "Santa Monica's" post using micro algae turf scrubbers. This is better suited for lower nutrients and easier maintenance, more for corals, not macro algae which need more nutrients.

    I'd try and find some well water post treatment where the water change be treated and mixed prior, say 50 Gallon batches.

    25% water changes on a 200 gallon 1x a month might be needed more than you might think.
    But with good dosing, I think you can run things pretty well without doing that much.

    I've gone 3-6 months without the water change on a reef.
    It always does better though if I do 1-2 month 25-40% though.
    Then I do not have to bother to test and can estimate dosing.
    It's a trade off.

    This is for a 300 Gallon tank.
    But I have decent tap that's almost RO water.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #10 Tom Barr, Feb 5, 2010
  11. pelmato

    pelmato Junior Poster

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    sorry Tom,
    can you please reformulate this sentence in others words. :eek:
    (my bad english sorry)


    Santa Monica's, interesting !
    but like you said (i think) it will enter in competition whit the macro algae for the nutriment.
    So better not use it, if im going whit a tank of caulerpa.

    but, could it be,(just thinking) that the micro will take "faster or much more "kind" of unsuitable nutrient" that macro do not "really use"...ending whit a more "purifying process" for the tank water ?

    thank you ;)
     
    #11 pelmato, Feb 5, 2010
  12. pelmato

    pelmato Junior Poster

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    last thing :D

    i made a solution of KNO3 and add some CSM+B in it. (tiny concentration)

    each ml put in the tank raise NO3 by 0,5ppm and Fe by 0,002ppm.

    i dose to have ~5ppm of NO3 (so 4ml ~ each 2day)
    do the Fe helping or it turn not usable for the plant once add to the saltwater (read something about chelated EDTA), and its not clear to me)
    should i skip this idea (ad csm+b)

    thank again.
     
    #12 pelmato, Feb 5, 2010
  13. pelmato

    pelmato Junior Poster

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    adding KNO3 to get NO3 2-5ppm. (not regularly)
    cyano is running back...

    no water change since... a long time... ~ 5-4 month


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    #13 pelmato, Apr 22, 2010
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