Metering(needle) valves for our DIY CO2 system

iani

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Oct 1, 2011
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Just guessing but I think 4M stands for 1/4" male npt. 2F is 1/8" female npt.
 

kevmo911

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Oct 19, 2010
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iani;88947 said:
Just guessing but I think 4M stands for 1/4" male npt. 2F is 1/8" female npt.

Yep. Seems complex, but each section of the model has a clear purpose.

With fittings, a numeral is usually a reference to size in sixteenths of an inch, whether it be in reference to NPT, BSP, tube size, etc.
2 = 1/8
4 = 1/4
6 = 3/8
8 = 1/2
...and so on. And M and F are often Male and Female, though that isn't quite as concrete a rule. And for Parker fittings and valves, "A" is usually a reference to "A-lok", which is Parker's brand of compression fittings, which are interchangeable with Swagelok fittings, as well as a whole host of other manufacturers.

As an aside, it's like in flourescent tube size, the measurement is in eights of an inch, in reference to bulb diameter.
T12 = 1 1/2
T8 = 1
T5 = 5/8

Anyway, here's a .pdf for the rest of the info:
http://www.technical-controls.com/graphics/catalogs/4170-HR_metering.pdf
 

bettatail

Guru Class Expert
Apr 1, 2011
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;)

Matt, go for the H3L. if you don't need it, but keep one as extra is always good idea, you never know when you are going to setup a new tank when the multi-tanks fever rise again.
 

Matt F.

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Oh, man. Such a temptation, but I think I've cured my multiple tank syndrome. These days cleaning my 60P takes more energy than I have. ;) As far as growing plants, I'm trying a bit of emersed gardening. I am very interested to see how people like these H3L vavles, though.
bettatail;89175 said:
;)

Matt, go for the H3L. if you don't need it, but keep one as extra is always good idea, you never know when you are going to setup a new tank when the multi-tanks fever rise again.
 

oldpunk

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Dec 1, 2009
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I've been using and messing around with one all weekend. It's honestly better than we need it to be. Its friggin huge though.
Matt F.;89218 said:
Oh, man. Such a temptation, but I think I've cured my multiple tank syndrome. These days cleaning my 60P takes more energy than I have. ;) As far as growing plants, I'm trying a bit of emersed gardening. I am very interested to see how people like these H3L vavles, though.
 

Matt F.

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Good to know. Do you think it's worth the price even on the secondary market? I'm all for quality and precision, but do you think the H3L valves provide us with something the Ideals and Fabcos and Swageloks don't? Is there enough of a difference to justify the cost?

I was recently talking with Tom about different CO2 diffusion methods. I think now that we have mastered regulators and the components for CO2 delivery, we should focus on other problem areas like CO2 diffusion and how to maintain constant co2 levels throughout the photoperiod.

Just planting the seed. ;)

oldpunk;89222 said:
I've been using and messing around with one all weekend. It's honestly better than we need it to be. Its friggin huge though.
 

oldpunk

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Dec 1, 2009
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Worth the price? Yes, totally. Does it provide something different? In the grand scheme of things, no. It's availability will pass and we will still have the same options as before. It is a pretty darn nice metering valve for $25. I'm not crazy about how the handle looks or the fact that it's the straight version but it's ridiculously easy to make fine adjustments to your flow rate. BTW, these are brand new in a sealed box. They even come withe tools you need to take apart the verier handle.
Matt F.;89445 said:
Good to know. Do you think it's worth the price even on the secondary market? I'm all for quality and precision, but do you think the H3L valves provide us with something the Ideals and Fabcos and Swageloks don't? Is there enough of a difference to justify the cost?

I was recently talking with Tom about different CO2 diffusion methods. I think now that we have mastered regulators and the components for CO2 delivery, we should focus on other problem areas like CO2 diffusion and how to maintain constant co2 levels throughout the photoperiod.

Just planting the seed. ;)
 

hbosman

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Oct 22, 2008
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oldpunk;89456 said:
Worth the price? Yes, totally. Does it provide something different? In the grand scheme of things, no. It's availability will pass and we will still have the same options as before. It is a pretty darn nice metering valve for $25. I'm not crazy about how the handle looks or the fact that it's the straight version but it's ridiculously easy to make fine adjustments to your flow rate. BTW, these are brand new in a sealed box. They even come withe tools you need to take apart the verier handle.

I agree, it's definitely a great buy for $25.00. It provides a finer adjustment than my former Fabco. Since I'm using a Reactor at 10 PSI, I really don't need that fine of a adjustment though. When I was running an Atomizer at 40 PSI, the Fabco was a little difficult to adjust. So, it's matter of application whether you need to pay for fine adjustment. But, at $25.00 your covered regardless. I think the handle looks kind of cool but, not something I find that helpful. Once I have determined an ideal bubble rate, I doubt that I will even try to remember how the marks are lined up.

Anyway, very good buy, I only needed one but bought two and happy I did.
 
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hbosman

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Oct 22, 2008
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[attachment=1248:name]

Installed on a Victor VTS 250 Dual Stage Regulator.

IMG_co2.jpg
 
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bettatail

Guru Class Expert
Apr 1, 2011
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Burkert stainless steel solenoid, the model 2822

whoever goal the Parker Hannifin H3L Metering valve, now it is the run for stainless steel Burkert 2822 solenoid!

and forget about burkert 6011, if you can pick up a SS burkert 2822.

The burkert 2822 is not available in the USA, only special order from Germany.
get a quote from the industrial supplier, the price is close to $300 to order from Germany.

more than a year ago when I started the metering valve research, I knew I need this solenoid and have been looking for one since, only saw them recently, on ebay, and the seller sells them at $25! lol.
 

Tom Barr

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The valve +the solenoid is a pretty darn good deal.

I like the vernier handle on the parker.
 

Matt F.

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bettatail;89639 said:
and forget about burkert 6011...

Those of us who have the Type 6011 should forget about them? I really don't think the 2822 offers anything more than a 6011 as far as function or materials. Little is known about the 2822 as of yet. The only difference I see so far is the price difference of $17 (currently). The price is bound to go up especially since you made the planted tank community aware of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people testing them. Just don't make blanket statements like "forget the 6011" or that the 2822 is better without providing concrete evidence. ;) I don't like misleading people. A while ago there was a run on the Swagelok M-series metering valves. These were found to be not that good for our application.
 

Tom Barr

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I have the burkets, they seem pretty good on several tanks.
Still, like Jerry's issue, I think many of them are leakers and folks do not catch them.

Then they burn through CO2 gas tanks as a result.
 

Matt F.

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Tom Barr;89710 said:
I have the burkets, they seem pretty good on several tanks.
Still, like Jerry's issue, I think many of them are leakers and folks do not catch them.

Then they burn through CO2 gas tanks as a result.

I've run my Burkert type 6011 since 11/2010 without any leaks of gas through or around the solenoid. They are pressure tested at high pressure (higher pressures that we will ever see) from the factory prior to being shipped out to the distributors. Each unit is tested individually. If there is a leak, Jerry should send it back to have their engineers see if they can replicate the leak and find the problem. A lot of times user error or damage is the cause of failure when it comes to the Burkert solnoids. I've had one solenoid "leak," had the engineers at Burkert USA test the unit, and found that nothing was wrong with the actual unit. I had the valve on backwards. They sent it back to me on their dime. Burkert has great a great customer service and tech department.

If the thing leaks, have your distributor send it back under warranty to be evaluated by their engineers. They'll tell you what's going on so that you don't have to guess.
If aquariumplants.com doesn't honor their responsibility to send potentially defective units back to Burkert to get evaluated, purchase your valve elsewhere from an authorized distributor like iprocessmart.com or freshwatersystems.

I agree that some may not catch a leak and the leak could cause catastrophic losses to your tank's inhabitant, but that is true of any valve or co2 delivery system you choose. That's why it's important to have someone who knows what they are doing build the regulator. And use quality components. I don't think this problem is specifically related to Burkert type 6011 solenoid. There is little evidence of that.

I still don't see how the 2822 is better than the 6011 in any real quantitative way. I don't think the orifice size matters when it comes to sealing abilities of the solenoid. The 6011 is rated to a higher pressure.

Don't get me wrong, I am for more options, but where I take issue is when someone says that something is better and does not provide any data to support.
 
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oldpunk

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Dec 1, 2009
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Tom Barr;89710 said:
I have the burkets, they seem pretty good on several tanks.
Still, like Jerry's issue, I think many of them are leakers and folks do not catch them.

Then they burn through CO2 gas tanks as a result.

The instruction manual form Burkert says you need to run a screen in front of the solenoid. This is because pretty much any small piece of debris will keep it from making a tight seal. (This is also why you should have a filter on your cga inlet...) It seems like no matter how clean I think I get a regulator and it's parts sometimes, 1 time out of 10 something gets stuck on the orifice and I have to walk someone through how to clean it out. This has nothing to do with the solenoid. It's a error on my part not seeing some tiny spec - lol. I have yet to see any instances of a 6011 failing.
 

bettatail

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Apr 1, 2011
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update, Brooks instrument NRS series metering valve
unfamiliar to the hobbyists but it is a big name in flow control devices.

Brooks instrument Extremely low flow NRS needle control valve, Model 8503, 8504, 8513, 8514.
This metering valve is the same design(non rising stem) as Parker Hannifin HR series, and same as Parker HR series, low CV for extremely low flow control.
8503, angle pattern, normal handle
8504, straight(inline) pattern, normal handle
8513, angle pattern, digital handle
8514, straight(inline) pattern, digital handle
stem type Cv.
type 6, CV: 0.052
type 5, CV: 0.017
type 4, CV: 0.0057
type 3, CV: 0.0013
type 2, CV: 0.00066
type 1, CV: 0.00029