Metering(needle) valves for our DIY CO2 system

Left C

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fongalv;65585 said:
Hi Guys,

Can someone kindly point me towards a decent/reliable online shop where I can purchase a parker/burkert solenoid in the various voltages? I'm actually considering one of the DC versions as I'm not located in the US, and it seems 240VAC with NPT threads are not your typical everyday solenoid.

Are there any key operating differences when comparing the VAC and DC ones apart from the fact that an AC/DC wallplug will be required to use the DC solenoids? They all seem to draw the same amount of power and hence gaining the same amount of heat?

I've tried ebay with no luck.
Burkert sells their solenoids worldwide through your local dealer. They come in both brass and stainless steel with your choice of either Viton or Buna-N seals. They have 1/8" NPT ports. Their 2056 cable plugs come in various voltages, with or without LED's, w or w/o varistors and other versions. They use an 18/3 powercord. Your dealer should be able to help you with 240v part numbers. The Burkert solenoids are made in Germany.

6011 solenoid: http://www.burkert.com/COM/Products/Solenoid-valves/Water-and-other-neutral-media/6011.html
2056 cable plug: http://www.burkert.com/products_data/datasheets/DS2506-Standard-EU-EN.pdf
 

fongalv

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Thanks Left C, it never occurred to me to attempt to check with the local distributer because anything and everything found locally is often at a much higher price compared to those bought online even after shipping. Nevertheless, I still shot them an email...will see how it goes from there.

So my main question now is still whether anyone know if theres any differences between using a 110/240VAC solenoid vs. one that runs off 12/24DC through a AC-DC adapter(found easily everywhere)? While I initially thought the DC ones might run cooler since theres no AC-DC conversion or stepping involved(at least within the solenoid itself), but if both have the same power consumption, then?
 

Left C

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As you can see in the Burkert cable plug link above that Burkert lists 3 separate voltages of cable plugs with unique part numbers:

12 to 24 V/AC/DC
100 to 120 V/AC/DC
200 to 240 V/AC/DC

******************************************************************************

You can go to Clippard's site for their MME-2PDS solenoids and they list 5 different voltages:

12v DC
24v DC
24v AC
110v AC
220v AC

As an example, if you wanted the MME-2PDS solenoid with a 220v AC DIN connector w/LED, your part number would be MME-2PDS-D220.



****************************************************************************


This might somewhat answer your question. In these two cases, they are broken down into various voltages.
 

Left C

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Another option that bettatail mentions above are the Clippard "Mouse Solenoid Valve Series." I know very little about them. Some people are using them with nano setups and maybe larger aquariums too. As near as I can tell, there is a large variety of these solenoids, but (as near as I can tell) they come with small #10-32 ports instead of the 1/8" NPT.
 

Left C

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I got Burkert to design two valves for us and they did. Then I asked them to find someone that would stock them for us and they did. Burkert has tried really hard to help us out.

I've never had any trouble with Clippard Maximatic solenoids, but there have been many reports of leaks over the past year or so. Some say that it is around the piston/seal area.

I have a couple of Clippard catalogs that are probably 3 or 4 years old. I was reading about the "Mouse" solenoids this afternoon. I wonder if a 3-way Mouse solenoid can be set up (or tuned) so that if "end of tank dump" would happen to occur; that the solenoid would vent this high pressure release of CO2 into the atmosphere instead of into the aquarium???? I know that Clippard has a whole series of parts that is capable of doing this, but they aren't cheap. I just wonder if a simple 3-way Mouse solenoid can do it really simply and very inexpensive???? It is just a thought.
 

bettatail

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Left C, do you know what happen to Rex Grigg?
I heard people said he fell sick since December last year, and I 've been wanting to get a hold with him and give him the first handed information about the equipments. I sent him some messages but haven't received any reply, just like others, waiting for his respond as well. He is the one that I will show and give all info before I show them to others. It is ultimate respect for someone sharing the same blood.

The information about the metering valves and solenoid valves I provide here is about a month lag after I am sure they are worth posting. I keep everything quiet, did some more intensive research about the equipments, and waiting for the right time to post.
Matt was really into ideal valve and believe it is the best:p, and I told him that swagelok S series is better about a month and a half ago, in our local planted tank club. He didn't believe me..
Now looks like the metering valves we can choose from are far more than what we can imagine a month before. (no offense, Matt, when you read this, don't throw eggs at me:D)
Same as solenoid valves.
 

bettatail

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by the way, ideal valve is not that good from engineer's point of view.

Edit:
sorry, everyone, make a mistake, read the ideal valve model 4 Cv/turn chart and thought it was the model 1,

really sorry about this, Bill, left C, and Matt, got to sho0t myself for making this big mistake.
 
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Matt F.

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bettatail;65605 said:
Left C, do you know what happen to Rex Grigg?
I heard people said he fell sick since December last year, and I 've been wanting to get a hold with him and give him the first handed information about the equipments. I sent him some messages but haven't received any reply, just like others, waiting for his respond as well. He is the one that I will show and give all info before I show them to others. It is ultimate respect for someone sharing the same blood.

The information about the metering valves and solenoid valves I provide here is about a month lag after I am sure they are worth posting. I keep everything quiet, did some more intensive research about the equipments, and waiting for the right time to post.
Matt was really into ideal valve and believe it is the best:p, and I told him that swagelok S series is better about a month and a half ago, in our local planted tank club. He didn't believe me..
Now looks like the metering valves we can choose from are far more than what we can imagine a month before. (no offense, Matt, when you read this, don't throw eggs at me:D)
Same as solenoid valves.

To tell you the truth, I don't even really understand what you are saying.
I've never made the argument that anything is "the best." That's just plain dumb, IMO. Don't know where you're getting that. I also never said that the Ideal valve was better than the Sawgelok S series. We've never had a conversation about Swagelok S series. The only thing I mentioned is that LeftC said the M series (which you were trying to sell) was hit and miss and that a lot of the metering valves you have listed here have not been tested for aquarium use. I support you testing them. I suggested it. The data on a page is different than real world applications; hence, my experiences with the Clippard 1 PSIG check valves and ceramic diffusers. On paper it looks good. In reality it sucks...try it.

True enough...I use Ideal Valves (specifically V54-1-12s). They do the job quite well. ;)
I'd really like to know how you are gauging that the swagelok S series "is better."
That's such a vague statement.

Use what you want. I know you were trying to sell your stash of swagelok M series a while ago. I don't know what nit you're trying to pick with me. I don't appreciate it, though.
 
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Matt F.

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bettatail;65606 said:
by the way, ideal valve is not that good from engineer's point of view.

I hope Bill isn't reading this... :(
 
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Matt F.

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bettatail;65609 said:
I do want to sell those swagelok M series valves, anything wrong with it?:)

DOn't destroy a perfectly informative thread...one that you authored.
 

bettatail

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The big mistake I made about the ideal valve was because that was the model 4 chart but not the ideal valve model 1, and the convex line(model 4) is what needs to be avoided, so when I mistakenly interpret that the chart as ideal model 1, I made the big mistake and announce that ideal valve 1 is not good in engineer's point of view.

stupid me, and sorry, Matt
 

Matt F.

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Here is what you wrote on TPT about getting into arguments about which is "Best":

Thread can be found here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/135669-metering-needle-valves-our-diy-co2.html

Bettatail;1385251 said:
I don't want to get involve in the argument of which one is best, It is your decision to get the one you believe its the best and worth the value.

Swagelok 31 series, or hoke 2300 series are high pressure metering valve, they can work under high pressure, but they are not regulator.

if the PSI difference is 800 PSI between inlet and outlet of these two metering valves, the flow is relatively fast, Cv rate increase as the pressure difference rise.

And I doubt it is safe to put them to work, 800 PSI is a real challenge for rest of the fittings and connectors, you need a regulator to lower the pressure anyway.

Sounds familiar. Sounds like what I often suggest when in the position of having to decide between two items. IDK.
 

Matt F.

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bettatail;65634 said:
clam down, matt, you react too much, there is no enemy here.

Most of what you have quoted me saying in this thread I have not said (a misrepresentation). WHen this happens, I clarify.
I didn't ask your opinion, nor do I care whether you think I react too little or too much. You don't know anything about me. ;)
 
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Left C

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bettatail;65605 said:
Left C, do you know what happen to Rex Grigg?
I heard people said he fell sick since December last year, and I 've been wanting to get a hold with him and give him the first handed information about the equipments. I sent him some messages but haven't received any reply, just like others, waiting for his respond as well. He is the one that I will show and give all info before I show them to others. It is ultimate respect for someone sharing the same blood. ....
I haven't heard from Rex either. I can't remember the name of the problem that he was diagnosed with. I know that at times, he finds it very hard to even function. Maybe he has gotten worse???? I'm just guessing. I hope that he is doing OK, though He's a good guy.
 

Left C

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bettatail;65606 said:
by the way, ideal valve is not that good from engineer's point of view.

Edit:
sorry, everyone, make a mistake, read the ideal valve model 4 Cv/turn chart and thought it was the model 1,

really sorry about this, Bill, left C, and Matt, got to sho0t myself for making this big mistake.
No problem.

There is a thread that had a link to using one of the "4" series Ideal needle valves for our CO2 systems. The link no longer works, but the "4" series valve is mentioned again in some other threads. I don't know if this was a typo or the valve was being used with a really large aquarium or what. But anyway, the "1" series Ideal needle valves are what the greatest majority of us use.

In the list shown in the opening post of this thread, the "2" series Ideal needle valves are mentioned. IMO, this should be edited and changed to the "1" and its specs.
 

Left C

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Here is a bit more information about the "M series Swagelok metering valves. I asked a few people that are using these valves what they thought about them. Most reported that they were able to find a "sweet spot" with the valve just open a little bit. Anything past this "sweet spot" was way too much and as someone put it, the "the metering valve's flow would go plaid."

A big part of the Swagelok "M" series confusion is my fault. I was using the "1" series Ideals and the Swagelok "M" series. I was also able to find this sweet spot in the "M" series. The valve would hold this setting and wouldn't vary. I mentioned several times that I liked these valves. Some people purchased these "M" and there were mixed results reported all of which seemed to be correct. Some people were not able to find a "sweet spot." Then they tried the "S" series with offered much better control over a wider range. Some people mentioned that they had a wide range of control with the "M" series.

Many of us "dove" (past tense of dive and not the bird) into building regulators using mostly ebaY parts. We had to find out what worked and what didn't work. We all did an excellent job of "guessing" with just a few things "falling through the crack." The Swagelok "M" series is one of those "teething problems." But, again, there are several people that like them very well.