This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Manganese And Calcium Deficiencies

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by rs18alpha, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    I'll start to use the dimmer today. I haven't used the dimmer yet. I'll start off at 75%
    My Photoperiod is 6 1/2 hrs

    Once I get things sorted out I want to change things around add more rocks add more plants.
    I ordered a couple of bottles of each solution. I hope they get here soon.

    Question: What type of inline diffusers do you use?

    Question: I'm curious about how dosing the macs after lights off works?

    "Dosing" I made a mistake, I was using the wrong amounts.
    I'd like to double check the the numbers. According to Rotala Butterfly I need to use these amounts.
    I worked out the figures and this is for the front load dose.
    KNO3 mix 31grams in 250 mil bottle (dose 40 mil to get 20 ppm )
    KH2PO4 mix 7.23 grams in 250 mil ( dose 30 mil to get 4ppm )
    K2SO4 mix 11.25 grams in 250 mil ( dose 45 mil to get 6 ppm )
    MgSO4 mix 115.62 grams in 250 mil ( dose 16.6 mil to get 5ppm )

    Daily dose CSM+B mix 23.19 grams in 250 mil ( dose 5 mil to get 0.2ppm )

    Are those videos your tanks?
     
    #41 rs18alpha, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    KeeperOfASilentWorld likes this.
  2. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    Hey keeper, I'm still waiting on the Mg test kit. Please check out my last post I messed up the dosing amounts. Let me know if you agree with the amounts?
    I had a few questions as well.
     
    KeeperOfASilentWorld likes this.
  3. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    I just used the Mg test kit and it's at the >10 color
    I just did a WC change and I added my ferts so I don't know what's the best time to check this?
    I tested the Mg right before the lights came on.
     
    KeeperOfASilentWorld likes this.
  4. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    My numbers have been consistent ph 6.4 kh 4 CO2 47.8ppm according to Rotala
    I'll try to get it at ph 6.3 kh 3 CO2 45.1ppm

    With my Mg at 10 Shouldn't I stop dosing MgSO4?
     
    KeeperOfASilentWorld likes this.
  5. KeeperOfASilentWorld

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    8
    Local Time:
    4:29 PM
    Numbers seem to be correct but you could use some different concentrations for ease of dosing.
    Here is what I would do for this tank; 1ml 0.5ppm KNO3, 1ml 0.1ppm KH2PO4, 1ml 0.25ppm K2SO4, 5ml 0.1ppm CSM+B.
    Use the "dose to reach a target" setting in Rotala.
    Dry dose Mg.

    Do 10ml 0.2ppm. What are you using to prevent mold in the micro container?
    Are you dosing Seachem Excel to the tank?
    If so, you can just mix it in your container.

    I wish :) These are videos from Dennis Wong. He uses his own tanks in his videos. The tank in my profile picture is mine though :)

    You do this to keep all macro levels ( water concentrations ) steady throughout the week.

    The one from GLA is pretty neat.
    http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers/atomic-inline-diffuser-12.html

    You can adjust your photoperiod to 8 hours right away. Then, after a week, go ahead and disconnect the dimmer. Yes the 900S is high light but not very high. It should be around 90-100 umols at the substrate level in an ADA 90P. How deep is your tank?
     
    #45 KeeperOfASilentWorld, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  6. KeeperOfASilentWorld

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    8
    Local Time:
    4:29 PM
    Not necessarily. Where was your GH at? Can you make a dilution test for Mg to find the real concentration of Mg?

    Mix 1/5 aquarium water, 4/5 RO or distilled water. Make the test.
    Mix 2/5 aquarium water, 3/5 RO or distilled water. Make the test.
    Mix 3/5 aquarium water, 2/5 RO or distilled water. Make the test.

    Stop the daily Mg dose. Just do the 5ppm after water change dose. Test Mg after 7 days before the water change. Then we will adjust and start on the daily Mg doses accordingly.
     
    #46 KeeperOfASilentWorld, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  7. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    I'll do the Mg test and check the GH at the same time.
    I put 5 mil of excel in my Mic bottle. I've also been adding 5 mil of excel to the tank every other day.
    Question: Do I need to add the excel in the tank?

    I did a WC yesterday so I'll see what Mg and GH is next Friday

    My tank is 16.5" or 41.91cm deep

    The light is 3.5" or 8.89cm above the rim

    I keep the water about an inch below the bottom of the rim. So the light is about 4.5" above the water surface.
     
    KeeperOfASilentWorld likes this.
  8. KeeperOfASilentWorld

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    8
    Local Time:
    4:29 PM
    Perfect.

    No you don't need to but it is a good measure. I recommend dosing 4 to 5 ml everyday instead of every other day.
    You can mix this in to your micro container. 125 ml Excel 125 ml distilled water or RO. Dose 10 ml for 0.2 ppm, very close to 5 ml of that will be Excel.
    Remember not to mix the salts with 250 ml liquid. Put the salts in the container first then fill the container up to the 250ml mark, using your prepared liquid.

    That would probably be at or around 100 umols. I would keep going at %75. You can always take the dimmer out once everything is stable.
     
  9. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    Gh is 11 When using the JBL test kit it's a little hard to tell the exact color. When I match the color, it looks darker to me, so I don't know if it's my eyes or not?

    Question:
    What's a good Mg level?

    This stuff can make one feel stupid, ha ha.

    I just want to double check. I'm to mix the excel in distilled water by it's self and then add it to my 250 mil mix of Mics? I'll mix 11.59 Grams csm+b in 250 mil of distilled water so the bottle would contain 375 mil of solution. I'll then dose 10mil for 0.2ppm Fe and close to 5mil excel.

    Question:I double checked my numbers. My target ppm per daily dose is 3ppm NO3, 1ppm PO4, 1ppm SO4, 0.2ppm CSM+B correct?

    I just mixed up all of my Macs the other day but I think I messed up the amounts. I was using old amounts from another paper I had. The numbers are close. I can't believe I got it wrong.
    So here are my new amounts to mix in 250mil bottle.
    If the amounts per dose above are correct, then this is what I use, and I'll have to make new solutions.
    Or, I can try to adjust my current mix amounts to get as close as possible to the correct totals.

    30.86 gms KNO3 6mil dose = 3ppm ( 1.89K ) Per week Total NO3 21ppm
    5.42 gms KH2PO4 10mil dose = 1ppm ( 0.41K ) Per week total PO4 7ppm
    21.09 gms K2SO4 4mil dose = 1ppm ( 1K ) Per week total K from N and P K = 23.1ppm
    11.59 gms CSM+B 10mil dose = 0.2ppm Fe Per week total Fe 1.4ppm
    1 1/2 tsp Mg gms dry dose after WC
     
    #49 rs18alpha, Jan 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  10. KeeperOfASilentWorld

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    8
    Local Time:
    4:29 PM
    Dear @rs18alpha ,

    Please accept my apologies, I have been away for a while.

    Around 9-10ppm Mg to 32ppm Ca would be considered ideal. Keep in mind that the maintenance of an ideal ratio is not very important as long as you have adequate amounts of Ca and Mg. You might see some irregularities if Ca:Mg < 1.

    Nope. You add the salt into a container, then fill that container up with a 50/50 Excel to RO solution ( or in accordance with the amount of excel you choose to dose ), up to the 250 ml mark.


    Yes that is correct. After a few weeks we will see where the tanks values are and adjust accordingly. If you have already been front loading the amounts that we have discussed earlier with each water change, you can now cut those numbers in half and keep on front loading.

    How is everything going with the tank?

    Please feel free to ask any further questions.
     
    #50 KeeperOfASilentWorld, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  11. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    Glad your back. The tank's doing well. I've ordered more plants and I took out the big piece of wood and replaced it with a much smaller piece and I'm trying to fill up any open areas.

    I took the diffuser off my light and I'm getting more pearling than ever. My s. repens are doing very well. This is the first time that I've been able to have any success with s. repens. So we're moving in the right direction. I must say it feels good to finally be getting things worked out. Thanks to you!!

    My levels have been steady CO2 56.8, PH 6.2, KH 3, GH 11 and the Mg 10

    Question: Now, back to the Mic and Excel, I'll mix 125 mil excel and 125 mil distilled water with my 11.59 gms of csm+b in my 250mil bottle.

    Q: Front load. I'll dose 7.5 ppm KNO3, 1 ppm KH2PO4, 2.5 ppm K2SO4, 5 ppm Mg this is 1/2 of the 2nd front load that we started with.

    Q: As the weather gets warmer in the spring my schedule will change. Would it be ok if I dosed the Macs in the morning instead of after lights off at night?

    Thanks again..
     
    #51 rs18alpha, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  12. KeeperOfASilentWorld

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    8
    Local Time:
    4:29 PM
    Perfect.
    Happy to hear all is going well. This is just the start of it. Get ready for some fun days of planted tank keeping :)
    First, mix 125ml Excel and 125 ml distilled water in a separate container.
    Second, put the CSM+B salt in to the main dosing 250ml container.
    Third, use the solution you have from the first step to fill the main container on top of that salt. Fill it up to the 250 ml mark.
    This will leave you with some solution left over from your first step.
    The reason for this technique is, the dosing solution you prepare as 250 ml should be exactly 250 ml with the salt already mixed in. If you mix 250 ml solution with the salt you will end up with a solution that is greater than 250 ml. For example: 275 ml. This would result in an inaccurate dose while dosing the tank. Therefore, first place the salt and then fill up to the 250 ml mark.

    That would be too low. Do 12.5ppm KNO3, 2ppm KH2PO4, 4.5ppm K2SO4, 5ppm Mg.

    Sure. It doesn't matter when you dose the macros. Try to separate the macro dose and the micro dose by 1 minute while dosing both at the same time.
     
  13. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    Thanks, I am looking forward to fun plant keeping!

    I was looking at an article on the 2HR Aquarist about Red plants. He talks about lean NO3 levels.
    With my Twinstar 900s LED and Fert levels in my tank do you have any suggestions on what type of plants would do best in this set up?

    Keeping in mind, I'd like to try some Red, Orange or Pink plants.
    If needed I'll provide my plant list.


    When should I check back with you?
     
    #53 rs18alpha, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  14. KeeperOfASilentWorld

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    8
    Local Time:
    4:29 PM
    I am going to quote from the article "Nitrogen Cycling in Planted Aquariums" of Barr Report:

    "Generally limiting phosphate ( PO4-3 ) will not slow growth, whereas nitrogen limitation will limit growth, but as we shall see, the two are related and can drive the other's uptake rate."

    "A lack of nitrogen can greatly slow and harm plant growth far more than phosphate ( PO4-3 ) limitation and cause algae problems as the plant health deteriorates. Low stable amounts of nitrate ( NO3- ) can influence color in a variety of plants such as Rotala and Ludwigia genera."

    "Chlorophyll is a nitrogen rich molecule that requires nitrogen in substantial amounts. The effect is that the low nitrogen ( N ) level influences the plant's ability to produce enough Chlorophyll to provide the plant's green color. The result is that the other red pigments are more clearly seen and no longer masked over by the Chlorophyll. This is one of the "tricks" used to get a lot of red out of plants."

    "Adding NO3- will change the plant to back to green and this can be done in both directions many times. Many people hear this and then go too far and stunt their plants or cause problems because they went too low and caused a much more serious deficiency. The key is to have a stable low level that fits your routine. A very red plant indicates nitrogen stress, many aquarist have assumed it means a healthier plant in the past. Low light and a moderate fish load provide good conditions for this stability."

    "Higher concentrations of NO3 may allow the NO3 channels to push more NO3 into the plant cell by means of a concentration gradient whereas the high NO3 concentration will allow enzymes to be induced to handle more uptake (carriers). Keeping a good NO3 level over time will allow for that momentum to be maintained and these enzymes fully functioning."

    ---------------------------------------------------

    My personal advice would be to first master the good and healthy growth. Then if you still are curious about keeping stable low NO3 levels to induce nitrogen stress; I would be more than happy to help you through the process. My personal thoughts are with Tom Barr and I prefer higher concentrations.

    All plants prefer higher concentrations. It is when they are all healthy and at their optimal biology.

    Before and after WC.



    !!! I strongly advise all planted tank keepers to print out and read through all of Barr Report's articles multiple times with a highlighter. The science is what makes this hobby most fun. !!!
     
    Phishless likes this.
  15. Phishless

    Phishless Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    916
    Local Time:
    10:29 AM
    I'll take that my reply in the other thread prompted some good reading! :D
    Hope you also checked out the rest of Dennis' site, lots of great info there.
     
    KeeperOfASilentWorld likes this.
  16. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    Thanks guys, I was just curious about the low NO3 levels. I'm not ready to try anything like that now. I read as many articles as I can find. That's a good idea to print them out. There's a lot to take in. I agree Keeper, I'm just trying to get a steady growth from my plants. Once I get the hang of this maybe I could experiment with different fert levels to achieve optimal color in various plants. That's why I was wondering what type of plants would do best with my Twinstar and fert levels that I'm dosing now. I'm not a pro at this yet, maybe some day??
     
  17. rs18alpha

    rs18alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    25
    Local Time:
    3:29 PM
    Yeah it was good reading thanks. I'll have to read it again. It's a great site..
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice