Manganese And Calcium Deficiencies

Aug 3, 2017
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I have a copy from my water Co. and all I can see is Hardness (mg/l 66 to 190
or Hardness ( grains per gallon) 4 to 11 is this what you mean?

Yes but this isn't precise enough for us to use.

If you have an API Ca test kit you can estimate Mg using this formula.
((17.86 x dGH) - (2.5 x Ca ppm)) / 4.1 = Mg ppm
(ppm dGH - (2.5 x Ca ppm)) /4.1 = Mg ppm
Some lab tests are not so cheap!

You could also get a JBL Mg test and test for Mg. It is pretty accurate. It maxes out at 10 so if you find that your Mg is over 10, better to dilute the aquarium water: Half RO half aquarium and just multiply your results by 2.
 
Aug 3, 2017
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Milan, Italy
Right now my Ph is 7- KH 3 so my CO2 ppm is 30 according to Rotalabutterfly
So it looks like I need to get the PH down to 6.30 to reach 45ppm CO2

7 would put you at 9 ppm.

6.3 is 45 ppm yes ! 30 ppm would be around 6.45.

It is almost impossible to tell these differences with a pH kit. Better to order in a pH pen as soon as possible.

I would aim for 6.2 with a pH kit and watch the fish. If the fish are ok, perfect. If not, you could slowly pull back a bit.

Also, be sure to use your KH kit with 0.5 degree increments.
 

rs18alpha

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Feb 3, 2017
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Order in a pH pen as soon as possible. Until then, use your method of measuring to get the CO2 to about 45-50 ppm, measure just before lights on and just after lights off. Start dosing.

For GH you can check with your water company. You could also take some water into a decent shop and ask them to send it off to a test lab.

Example of a pH pen : https://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-H...e=UTF8&qid=1544659151&sr=8-15&keywords=ph+pen
My Co2 starts 2 hrs before lights come on. I just want to make sure if I should check the CO2 right before the lights come on?
 

rs18alpha

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Feb 3, 2017
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Dear @rs18alpha ,

Continue on doing your weekly %50 WC.

After your water change; dose ( front load ) 20 ppm KNO3 ( 12.6 ppm K ), 4 ppm KH2PO4 ( 1.6 ppm K ), 6 ppm K2SO4 and 5 ppm MgSO4***.
Then daily dose 3 ppm KNO3, 1 ppm KH2PO4, 1 ppm K2SO4 and 0.2 ppm Fe through CSM B+. Dose micros before lights on and macros after lights off.

If you want to dose every 2 days, just double these doses. Keep in mind that it might work better if the micros were daily dosed in your situation.

Before starting any of this, please give some information regarding your CO2. Let's make sure that the CO2 is dialled in correctly before any dosing. After a week or two, we will see where things are and adjust accordingly.

***Do you know how much Ca and Mg is in your GH of 11. We can adjust the Mg and Ca dose accordingly if you could find that out.


Happy Fish Keeping :)
After I do a WC and front load dose, do I dose the Mics as well?
 

rs18alpha

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Feb 3, 2017
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I checked the PH/KH last night and today. Both readings were KH 4 and PH 6.6 I'll check it again tonight.

So after the WC and front load dose. I won't be dosing the Macs until the next evening, correct?
 
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Aug 3, 2017
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I checked the PH/KH last night and today. Both readings were KH 4 and PH 6.6 I'll check it again tonight.

So after the WC and front load dose. I won't be dosing the Macs until the next evening, correct?

That would again be 30 ppm. Use this graph here to reach to about 45-50 ppm: https://barrreport.com/articles/co2-ph-kh-table.41/

This is just a guessing game without a pH pen and is not a way to measure CO2.

No. You dose your daily dose of macros every single day after lights off. After a couple of weeks, when your tank values get back to a desired level, we will see where they are at and adjust accordingly.

If I have to guess; we would probably decrease your second week WC front load to 15 ppm KNO3 ( 9.45 ppm K ), 2 ppm KH2PO4 ( 0.8 ppm K ), 5 ppm K2SO4, 5 ppm MgSO4***.

***Try to determine your Mg and Ca values.
 
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rs18alpha

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Feb 3, 2017
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I' ll order the Ca and Mg test kits. The Ca test kits that I see say they are for Salt Water.

Ok, I still don't understand. Do I do a WC and front load right away and also dose Macs after lights off the same night?
 
Aug 3, 2017
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Milan, Italy
I' ll order the Ca and Mg test kits. The Ca test kits that I see say they are for Salt Water.

Ok, I still don't understand. Do I do a WC and front load right away and also dose Macs after lights off the same night?

Mg would be enough if you could find any. "JBL Mg" is my favourite. Ca tests usually have 20 ppm increments, while Mg's have 1 or 2 ppm.

Yes, on WC day you do two macro doses. The daily macro doses are for keeping your values steady.

I have edited the initial post and added a daily dose of 0.5 ppm MgSO4. It has slipped my mind that the CSM+B did not have any.
 

rs18alpha

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Feb 3, 2017
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I found JBL Freshwater Mg Ca test kit $28.95 I think this will work?
So I don't need to get a Ca test kit?

JBL.jpg
 
Aug 3, 2017
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rs18alpha

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Feb 3, 2017
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I just ordered it. That way I'll be able to take tests in the future. I hope to have the PH Pen and the Mg test kit with in the next week or 10 days.

Should I just keep dosing the way I have been until I get the pen and test kit?

Also, I just realized I haven't thanked you for your help. I do appreciate it..
 
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Aug 3, 2017
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You are more than welcome. Please feel free to ask any further questions. I will be happy to help.

First, make sure you have good surface agitation and gaseous exchange. Then dial up your CO2 a bit. Aim for 4 kH 6.3 pH or 3 kH 6.2 pH or 2 kH 6 pH with the test kit you have. Then do the WC and start dosing your new dosing regime right away. When your pH pen arrives you can fine tune it for excellence, 45-50 ppm.

What fish do you have in there? Can you post a full tank shot? Temperature? When dialing in your CO2, watch your fish for signs of O2 deprivation. The usage of Twinstar or Chihiros ( more budget friendly ) electrolysis units are great help for O2 and therefore higher CO2 concentrations if they are in your budget.

Happy to hear that you have ordered both of them. Read this article before using the pH pen : https://barrreport.com/threads/effective-use-and-care-of-ph-meters-and-probes.10107/

Here are two very useful videos and one perfect article on CO2 :

https://barrreport.com/articles/met...ioxide-co2-volume-1-issue-10-october-2005.28/



 

rs18alpha

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Feb 3, 2017
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Thanks for the Vids I'll watch them right away.
I hope the pics are good. I'm not the best aquascaper. I've never been able to get it like I want. I'm still learning. I do want to take the drift wood out and go with more rocks and try some Manzanita wood. I've been letting it grow in a bit, and I just moved a few plants. The tank looked better yesterday.
I'm working on the CO2 The PH was 6.5 today I'll keep adjusting it.
Temp 74.6
It's basically a 40 gal Nano tank
Fish: 15 Ember tetras
2 Dwarf Honey Gourami
2 Honey red Gourami
3 Dwarf Pencil Fish
2 Stiphodons
4 or 5 Least Kilifish and some fry
6 to 8 Otocinclus
Aprox 20 Malaysian trumpet snails

7 to 8 Rams Horn Snails

I have the Twinstar 900s led, I have two layers of Aluminum screen over it because I had an algae problem when I first got.
I've been afraid the use the light at full strength. I do have a dimmer for it.
I'm using an in tank diffuser now. I'm waiting on an external pre filter that I'll be converting into a inline CO2 reactor. That should make a difference in the CO2 consistency.

It looks like I'l have to purchase some Storage and Cleaning solutions and more Calibrating Solution.
Question: I don't know how many times I'll be using the PH pen to get dialed in? So how much extra Calibration/Storage/Cleaning Solution should I buy?

2108 12-14 907.JPG


2108 12-14 908.JPG


2108 12-14 909.JPG
 
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Aug 3, 2017
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Lovely tank! It is not as densely planted as I thought it was, I wonder where all those nutrients are going? Especially with your lights not working on full power.

Thanks for the Vids I'll watch them right away.

I will keep them coming :)

I hope the pics are good. I'm not the best aquascaper. I've never been able to get it like I want. I'm still learning. I do want to take the drift wood out and go with more rocks and try some Manzanita wood.

Research Fibonacci's sequence and the golden ratio.

Temp 74.6

Perfect! Keep it between 73 and 75.

I have the Twinstar 900s led, I have two layers of Aluminum screen over it because I had an algae problem when I first got.
I've been afraid the use the light at full strength. I do have a dimmer for it.

Love the Twinstar's. Take the screen off right away, dimming is a better option. Which setting are you using on the dimmer? How many hours is your photoperiod?

I'm using an in tank diffuser now. I'm waiting on an external pre filter that I'll be converting into a inline CO2 reactor. That should make a difference in the CO2 consistency.

I prefer inline diffusers ( atomizers ), as they are the best of both worlds. Plants love the mist. Might even run with both to chase perfection :)

It looks like I'l have to purchase some Storage and Cleaning solutions and more Calibrating Solution.
Question: I don't know how many times I'll be using the PH pen to get dialed in? So how much extra Calibration/Storage/Cleaning Solution should I buy?

You should ideally be using it almost everyday until you get the hang of it. After a while, once or twice a week is sufficient, just to keep things in check.
One regular bottle of each should last months if not a year. I use about 15 ml each time.