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Malaysian Trumpet Snail in EI + CO2 + earthworm casting

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by jonny_ftm, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Hi,

    I'm a true believer in the power of snails to help (and only help, don't take me wrong) controlling algae especially via removing plants debris.

    Ramshorn snails are the most powerful, as they are big and extremely active (is the hemoglobin helping this?). I'm soon posting in my nano thread about my last experiment with them.

    My issue is that I can't keep the Malaysian Trumpet snails. They all die after a few days in my tank. Ramshorn snails and physa don't have issues.

    GH is 4-5, KH near 2, CO2 is misted (no dropcheck, but fish, critters and other snails are fine), I add 3x /week: 1 ppm PO4, 5 ppm NO3, 3 ppm K2SO4, 2.5 ml TPN and 0.1 ppm DTPA Fe

    A friend, growing amazingly hundreds of CRS, keeps tons of those snails under a non CO2 / non ferts tank, active soil (AKADAMA), GH 5 and KH 0 (active soil helping here) and a PH of 6.

    The only difference I can see with my setup is ferts (I doubt as other snails are fine), CO2 (are they more sensitive) or the organic soil with earthworm casting (as they dig into the soil).

    So, this topic is for people running EI, CO2 and especially an organic soil who can give a feeback on their snails population, especially the survival of Malaysian Trumpet snails.

    Manay thanks for any help
     
    #1 jonny_ftm, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2011
  2. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Sorry to insist,

    Any feedback from people with organic soil and MTS?
     
  3. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Sorry I don't use organic soil just flourite. But, I use c02 and heavy EI and have a ton of MTS in the tank.

    Be patient for responses as threads are easily overlooked if there is a lot of forum activity.....
     
  4. ScottieB

    ScottieB Junior Poster

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    Hi there. Certainly no expert, but can say that with similar water parameters (mine is a touch harder at 3dkh and 8GH) and a similar dosing routine my snails are fine and in fact thriving. I have read that they - along with any hard-shell creature - prefer harder water, but the only thing I have noticed is that the shells start to soften up and dissolve a little in softer water. Not to the point of killing the snails, but my snails have a light colored shell, some are white in spots, while a friend with much harder water has MTS that have a much shinier and browner shell. They all came from the same batch though.
     
  5. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Thanks both of you.

    So CO2 and ferts look like to be out of the equation.

    Maybe organic soil is toxic for them?

    I really dont see other things. All my snails, critters and fish are fine and healty. But MTS, dies rapidely few days after introduction. It was the same 18 months ago when I started this tank.

    Hope someone with organic soil comes here to confirm it
     
  6. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Well,

    No once could post a feedback here.

    I see now even more shells thrown dead on the soil of these MTS. All other snails, critters and fish are ok. Organic soil looks improper to aquatic life when they dig into it, at least for snails.
     
  7. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Just noticed this thread. How could MTS be incompatible with MTS (no pun) or any other snail for that matter. Seems improbable. No idea otherwise. I'm likely to try to get some MT snails to try and lessen the amount of burping my MTS is still doing. I wonder if your snails are hitting some H2S pockets that is doing them in?

    Jim
     
  8. fjf888

    fjf888 Guru Class Expert

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    I have potting soil in MTS in my NPT for 3 years. No problems. The MTS have been in the tank for nearly as long as the tank has been around. I also made no effort to add them. I have a lot of rooted plants and runners maybe that helps.
     
  9. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    I am not sure we can say that MTS (malaysian trumpet snails) cannot exist in MTS (mineralized top soil) based on one or two experiences...

    Is it possible the 'dead' shells are simply castings?

    Look at the tank walls at night. If the walls have MTS (the snails) that is normal and I would say they are okay.

    Try giving some food after lights out to draw them out. A healthy population should have a fair amount....

    Try stirring the substrate a bit here and there and see if it is compacted at all.
     
  10. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Hi all and thanks for the feedback

    No, the shells are from the introduced MTS. At night, they stop climbing the glass in 1-2 weeks after I introduce them. Shells lie on top of soil, with the snails closed in with the membrane. After a 1-2 weekps, it begings decomposing inside.

    I give enough food. Physa + Ramshorn do extremely well. Also critters and fish (Galaxy).

    Well, I don't really care about MTS as Physa + Ramshorn do the main job in avoiding any decaying plant debris. Just, I find it very strange to never being able to maintain the MTS in this tank with earthworm castings soil.

    Now, another possibility I see would be a too much planted tank with little free soil areas. The roots could cause them die by anoxia, not being able to reach surface for breathing? Is it possible on heavily planted tanks with carpetting plants?
     
  11. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    I read from another post that you used to dose Flubendazole.
    That might be the cause.

    I used to dose Mebendazole and some fishes died, all were bottom dwellers.
    I searched and read some document and found that the most affective way
    to degradation for it was photolysis.

    http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:mad:term+@DOCNO+3232
    I had to change substrate and filter media to stop it because once the powder fell into substrate (it's not very soluble), photolysis couldn't occur.

    Flubendazole and Mebendazole are drugs in the same group of benzimidazole. So this info may be useful.
     
  12. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Ouao,

    840 to 84 years for the half life of product, that's an eternity to disappear from sediment. What a mess I did in fact.
    It could be indeed flubendazole still in substrate, causing some degree of damage.

    Now, the other thing is that before flubendazole, MTS already had a hard time to establish in my tank.

    Any of you can confirm if MTS can thrive in a too much planted tank with very little if any free soil surface. These snails have to climb tank wall to breath at surface. If they have many obstacles (plants) and heavy roots, could they die because of O2 lack?

    Also, still waiting for some one with organic soil to confirm is MTS can live in it or not
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I have had a hard time getting rid of MTS in my ADA AS, but since I do not use plain soils etc........I cannot say.
     
  14. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Many thanks Tom for the feedback, so still no definite answer for me, except, it looks like to be a soil issue, since you get these snails in a heavily planted tanks, as most of your tanks...


    NB: why would you get rid of these snails? esthetics?
     
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