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Macarenia clavigera river water chemistry

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Species' started by brrrpr, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    Hallo everybody, I was addressed here by a search on the Internet, a friend of mine recently got this wonderful and mysterious plant. As the price he payed for it was extremely high and as the amount he got was barely two very small plants, we are all frightened that he might even loose those two specimens fortune due to complete lack of information and knowledge about the water chemistry of that plant in the native environment and how to recreate the appropriate growing water conditions in the aquarium.


    We have gathered that as the water from the pictures is so crystalline it might be also very poor of nutrients with low GH and KH but we know nothing of any other phisical-chemical fundamental parameter like the temperature that can cause the plant to die very quickly of not proper.


    We are actually providing high light, like 2000 lux to one branch and 5000 lux or more to the other, water movement, low CO2, neutral pH but we are just going gropingly trying to use a bit of sense.


    If anyone has any info about that river where the plant actually lives please let me know.


    Thank you
     
  2. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    Wow, I didn't realize that someone exported that plant! Caño Cristales is a protected area, so I will assume from another region in Colombia. I heard they were building a road across that region, so there may be some collecting going on.


    I am equally surprised that the plant has not melted yet! Podostemaceae are VERY DIFFICULT to grow in aquaria.


    I'd try very high light, high current, very high oxygen, soft water, low nutrients, and of course, you will need to get them attached onto rocks. If you use turbulent flow instead of laminar flow, the plants will braid themselves and either detach from the rock base or become a rope. Laminar flow pumps like HydroWizard are expensive.


    Caño Cristales is not shaded by trees, so it's not as cool as you'd expect a canopy-covered forest stream. Temperature will not be your problem.
     
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  3. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    Thank you for the answer, so you say that temperature is not a major concern but there are plants very sensitive to temperature, some suffering overheating at 24° (Celsius degree) and other finding cold 24°; two main examples are Lagarosiphon major that melts when temperature reaches 24° and Cabomba furcata that stops growing below 24°.


    I pointed out temperature because as you can imagine due to the rarity of the plant we would never be able to replace it in case of death, that is why we want to be very careful not to do any misstep.


    I was telling my friend that I really hope the plant will grow like an infesting weed, hahaha !


    By the way, you never heard of anybody trying the chance with this plant ? I hope we are not pioneers in this experience.


    I had some experience with native Italian plants (where I am from), at the beginning they didn't want to hear any reason to survive inside the aquarium, even with the best conditions provided but after a looong period of acclimatizing (that lasted 6 months), for no reasons they literally exploded. I had this experience with Ranunculus aquaticus and Najas marina sb. marina, Najas marina sb. armata and Callitrice stagnalis.
     
  4. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    You'll be fine with 23 to 25 C.


    I've seen, touched, photographed Podostems all over the place - they melt if I look at them the wrong way. They are hyper-adapted to shallow, rocky, fast-flowing habitats.


    Lagarosiphon major is a subtropical plant. Southern africa gets surprisingly cold!


    For your sake (and ours) I hope you grow it like a weed! :D
     
  5. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    Wow ! Interesting to hear ! So you had the chance to travel where they actually grow, lucky you.


    I know one day I will take a trip to those places.


    I've started thinking that aquarists normally consider beautiful only those plants that come from the shops or from pictures;


    Since long I've seen that there exists a lot of native plants that are not marketed anywhere; those plants are extremely beautiful and very challenging like mine. So far I've compiled a list with more that 30 different native plants that I can use in a cold water plant aquarium. Another of my dream plants would be Riella helicophilla but getting my hands on one specimen would mean to take a flight to somewhere where they grow, with no guarantee of success. :(
     
  6. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    There are good news, the small plant has produced a sprout (I don't know if the word is correct), one picture has been shown today on the site.


    Do you perhaps also know other mean parameters like pH, GH, KH (or any other) ? May be just the mean pH of the river should be enough.


    Thank you
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Like most Podostemacea, they will like current and good CO2 and yes, ferts. In open systems the nutrients are low but continuously replenished. This is rather tough to replicate in an aquarium. You can have a massive tank volume and then only a few plants/biomass. This makes it easier. Water changes help. Since most of the Podostemacae use modified root holdfast, moving them is tougher. You could get them started on small stones, then it is easier. CO2 will help. I'd not worry about temp so much, most all aquatic plants will do well up to 35-40C. I've seen evidence in the wild and in culture. the issue at higher temps is the metabolic growth rate also increases significant, the so called Q10 hypothesis, you get 2x the growth rate at 30C that you do at 20C. It's not quite that much in submersed cultures, but 50% is certainly not that far off. So 50% more ferts and CO2 demand. KH, not much of an issue, GH is.
     
  8. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    You may want to contact Oliver Lucanus and/or Chris Lukhaup about KH/GH. They've been there.


    I did not go to Caño Cristales due to military blockades and narco activity - sometimes they're the same. Although there are more tourists now, I hear, due to a new road. The closest I got was 200 + miles north. Even there, I had a 'driver' with a gun accompany me everywhere. Still, based on the general water chemistry in the region, I'd say the water is soft, but but nothing like blackwater. pH is probably between 6 and 7. Typical values for that part of Colombia.
     
  9. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    Thank you very much for the very precious info, the owner of the site is an Italian man very skilled with the most challenging plants, he has already tried all sort of species and now he has entered this Macarena adventure. If you don't mind, I will ask him permission if I can post here his Macarenia pictures.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Sebastian is a freind of mine from Colombia and he's gone there many times. He comes to the USA often also. But........the plants are tough to grow. If not, everyone would have them.
     
  11. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    Ok, I spoke to him, his name is Massimo (mine is Emanuele) and he told me that he knows you already, he told me also that it would be a honor and very much appreciated if he should ever receive a visit from you and the people of barrreport interested about Macarenia.


    I beliveve that everybody would benefit if with the conjunct help of different experiences this adventure would turn to be successful.


    Here is the very first picture of the plant taken just a few days after having been planted into the aquarium.




    Macarenia growing in captivity.jpg
     
    #11 brrrpr, Jun 4, 2016
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  12. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    We are positive in hope that the little thing will eventually develop into that masterpiece that mother nature was able to give us.
     
  13. brrrpr

    brrrpr Subscriber

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    Yes please, how can I get in touch with them ? ....and who is Sebastian ?
     
  14. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
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    Oliver is the owner of belowwater.com - you can contact him there.


    Chris is associated with Dennerle.


    Both are on Facebook.
     
  15. Yo-han

    Yo-han Guru Class Expert

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    How did this turn out? Would love to try this plant one day!
     
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