Looking for pointers.

[Gargoyle]

Hello I have recently set up a 55 gallon tank. The setup is as follows...

• Magnum 350 Canister filter
• 2 150 watt Stealth Heaters
• Power Head 210 with prefilter
• 4 bulb T5 HO lighting 54w each (currently only 2 used)
• 13 Java Ferns mostly small
• 4 small moss balls
• 8 Money Worts mostly small
• 16 various fish

Now I have seeded this tank with bio from my old tank and the cycle is coming along well. I have 2 issues I would like advice / assistance with.

1. White cloudy water (very persistent) (no carbon in my filters)
2. very lush green algae growing rapidly

I think that I have either to much light causing the algae or maybe not enough C02. I currently have NO C02 system and have been using NO ferts at this point. I could guess but I would rather ask and do it right the first time.

The cloudy water I am suspecting a bacteria bloom that is taking it's time.

Thanks a lot for reading!! Thanks even more for any help!

 

[Mooner]

Hi G, Welcome

You can start here http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html for the reading.

This will explain a lot. To much light for that tank without a source of carbon.

Thing are out of balance and a decision needs to be made for what your goals may be http://www.barrreport.com/you-new-aquatic-plants-start-here/2890-step-2-chose-method-learn-well.html.

Let us know if you have specific questions after the read

 

[Tom Barr]

Seachem's Excel would likely beat two things with one stone.
A UV, more water changes and a single 54W light would be best.

Here's a 70 gallon tank with the same amount oif light and it has loads of CO2 and nutrients:

Now if you are not adding CO2 gas, and you are using this much light, you will need to either reduce it, or add CO2, or use Excel.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[creighton]

Tom,
This is kinda off topic, but do you know the fert routine for that AFA tank? That's one of my favorite scapes! I'm still trying to get my rotola green to grow like that .

Thanks,
Creighton

 

[VaughnH]

You also have a very low plant load in that tank. One secret for prevent algae from starting, when you first set up a tank, is to plant the tank heavily from the start, using lots of stem plants, even though you plan not to have them there in the mature tank. A heavy planting means the tiny inputs of ammonia from the fish, excess food, plant debris, etc. will be almost instantly comsumed by the plants, before algae spores can be aware of its existence. And, algae use ammonia as one signal that it is time to start growing.

 

[Gargoyle]

Thank you very much for the replies!!

I will be using option number 4 it looks like. I was planning on pressurized C02 for this tank but ran low on funds. So in response to the replies this is where I am at after my work today...

1. Quickly set up a DIY Yeast C02 system (I know it is not adequate)
2. Changed 50% of the water

With my DIY C02 I am hoping something is better than nothing at this point. Would it be wise to add any Excel in addition to the DIY C02 and once my pressurized system is up stop using the Excel?

I would really like to stay away from a dosing regimen if at all possible.

I will also be picking up more plants. I know of Java Fern, Money Wort, and Horn Wort pretty well. Any suggestions on what other plants I could look into and use?

Beautiful tank photo by the way. Are there fish in that tank?

Thanks again for your help!! If I am missing anything please let me know. I see already I have made mistakes and I will work on repairing those ASAP!

 

[VaughnH]

In order to stay away from dosing ferts in that tank you need to limit yourself to only two of the 54 watt lights you have, and that is still probably too much to do without fertilizers. You could raise the lights 6 inches or so above the tank, and that would reduce the intensity into the ballpark for a no-fertilizing method. But, you probably don't have enough fish to make that scheme work well. Dosing fertilizers is so easy that should be the way you go.

 

[Tom Barr]

Tom,
This is kinda off topic, but do you know the fert routine for that AFA tank? That's one of my favorite scapes! I'm still trying to get my rotola green to grow like that .

Thanks,
Creighton

Rotala green is weed...........
You cut it like you would a hedge and it'll form those nice rounded domes.

The fert routine has gone all over with this tank.
Sometimes they neglect it and do not add anything other than fish food for a month. But that's when it's very overgrown.

Also, remember that the tank has 4-6" of ADA AS, a good amount of ferts there.
+ the tank is 1.5w/gal, it's a low light tank by most standards..........so the demand for nutrients can be met via the sediment alone.

The tank was maintained more in the past, dosed routinely etc, water changes more often etc.

As long as you do not add so darn much light, you can get away with far more neglect on any tank.

You can skip water column dosing, you do not have to trim as much, skip water changes, rely more on the fish waste vs KNO3 and a dozen other benefits.

Sadly folks think more light = better.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Tom Barr]

Thank you very much for the replies!!

I will be using option number 4 it looks like. I was planning on pressurized C02 for this tank but ran low on funds. So in response to the replies this is where I am at after my work today...

1. Quickly set up a DIY Yeast C02 system (I know it is not adequate)
2. Changed 50% of the water

With my DIY C02 I am hoping something is better than nothing at this point. Would it be wise to add any Excel in addition to the DIY C02 and once my pressurized system is up stop using the Excel?

I would really like to stay away from a dosing regimen if at all possible.

I will also be picking up more plants. I know of Java Fern, Money Wort, and Horn Wort pretty well. Any suggestions on what other plants I could look into and use?

Beautiful tank photo by the way. Are there fish in that tank?

Thanks again for your help!! If I am missing anything please let me know. I see already I have made mistakes and I will work on repairing those ASAP!

Since you are opting for DIY on a 55 gal tank with 2x 54w:
Read and make one of the internal venturi diffusers, cost you about 3$ and the cost of a 10-15$ powerhead, or you might have one you can use.

Plug the powerhead into the light timer.

Now you have semi automated CO2.

Brew:

Add at least two 2 liter bottles, so a total of 4 liters of brew. Make sure they are warm and not too cold during the day.

Make the diffuser yourself and you will save 50$.
This will get every bit of the CO2 out of the brew and is easy to make and use.
It's ideal for DIY folks.

Save yer nickels, buy a gas tank, worth every penny.
Virtually everyone that has used gas will tell you this with good reason.

Folks just do not understand why CO2 gas tanks are so useful/helpful.
Later, they all realize it.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Gargoyle]

I currently have 2 large juice bottles running into a tee. Then to a 20 oz bottle for a bubble counter. The outlet is currently plumed into the output of my canister filter which blows the bubbles into little bits but is less that satisfactory as far as efficiency.

Either today or tomorrow I will be visiting the LFS to source the needed parts to build an adequate diffuser and get a couple of timers. I would like my 02 pump timed as well as the lights and C02.

Currently I have it set up so the 02 is on at night and C02 on during the day along with the 2 54w T5's. I have 2 of the blue lights for saltwater but I don't use those. I am wondering if switching one of those with one of the white ones would be a good idea. That way only one 54w T5 will be on and the other will be a blue light which I have read does nothing for plant of algae growth. I need a confirmation on that idea before I do it though.

Just so you know the DIY C02 is hopefully a short term solution and I hope to be going pressurized very soon. I am also toying with an idea for diffusion by building my own spray bar for the output of my canister filter. I am thinking to plum the C02 line in early enough to create enough pressure to dissolve the C02 before it enters the tank. Don't have ot totally worked out at this point and the powerhead idea seems to be the most tried and true. I also like the idea of drilling holes into the impeller blades.

I will keep you all posted over the next few days on what I have gotten done (money permitting) and hopefully get few pics up!

Thanks much for all the help!!

 

[creighton]

Rotala green is weed...........
You cut it like you would a hedge and it'll form those nice rounded domes.

The fert routine has gone all over with this tank.
Sometimes they neglect it and do not add anything other than fish food for a month. But that's when it's very overgrown.

Also, remember that the tank has 4-6" of ADA AS, a good amount of ferts there.
+ the tank is 1.5w/gal, it's a low light tank by most standards..........so the demand for nutrients can be met via the sediment alone.

The tank was maintained more in the past, dosed routinely etc, water changes more often etc.

As long as you do not add so darn much light, you can get away with far more neglect on any tank.

You can skip water column dosing, you do not have to trim as much, skip water changes, rely more on the fish waste vs KNO3 and a dozen other benefits.

Sadly folks think more light = better.

Regards,
Tom Barr

On my 30 gallon I have 2 X 55 watts of AH PC lighting and just added a Maxi-Jet 400 with needle wheel mod. to chomp some bubbles. I'm using pool filter sand mixed with flourite for a substrate. I just can't seem to the get my Needle leaf ludwigea or Rotola Green to grow well. I think my CO2 is okay and my fert. routine is on time. The Acurata gets covered wtih algae on its older leaves, but the new ones are nice and red. The rotola is just kinda going slow. I'll start a new thread and post some pictures.

Thanks Tom.

CT

 

[Gargoyle]

Picked up 6 more bunches of plants today and Excel. I will be working out the details with water changes and dosages tomorrow..

I have Green water... Sigh....

 

[VaughnH]

A real cheap thing to try is a drop checker. Either make one or buy one - the Red Sea version costs around $10. Then fill it with 4 dKH distilled or deioniized water and if you have enough CO2 the color will be green. This is an approximation of how much CO2 is getting to where the plants can use it, but it is a better approximation than any other inexpensive way is. Then you can say with confidence that your CO2 is about right.

 

[Gargoyle]

Thanks for the help thus far to all of you... This is what I have done today to correct my obvious issue.

1. added a total of 10 bunches of various stem plants
2. Added one bunch of Horn Wort (which would make 11 bunches of plants)
3. Dosed Excel (5.5 capfuls for 55 gallons)
4. cut light to 8 hours or less
5. feeding bloodworm's (dunno if it'll help but trying)
6. Dual Juice bottle DIY C02 at 1bps with heating pad to maintain bps count
7. Using diffuser design mentioned above
8. Drop Checker with 4 solution showing a teal color presently
9. Plants are producing O2 bubbles ???

It's lights out time now. Please let me know if there is more that I can do. I am currently doing everything I can budget allowing which honestly my budget isn't much so DIY stuff is great!!

Thanks again!!

 

[Gargoyle]

O'kay with all of the above done I have also raised the light 4" from the top of the tank. The light was off for about 3 hours while I was constructing the wood to raise the light. When I turned it back on the tank was all green!!

It wasn't green when I turned the light off but was when I turned it back on? How did that happen I thought less light would mean less algae?

When I turned the light on this morning the water was the clearest it has been in about 8 days. But now it's the worst it's been!! I turned the light on, fed the fish, dosed excel, and that was it.

Suggestions ideas or help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Gargoyle]

Fixed the Algae issues... Water is so clear you can't tell it's even there!!

Thanks for the tips and help!!

 

[VaughnH]

Don't drop this yet! What did you conclude was the fix for the green water? And, what do you think started it?

 

[Gargoyle]

Cause: Multiple issues. The biggest being to much or incorrect lighting for freshwater.

Correction: Less lighting, UV filter (used for 3 days), Micron filter in canister, Increased C02 (make the drop checker pretty green), and started dosing excel once daily.

Right now my tank gets so many 02 bubbles from the plants it looks like it's snowing in the tank!! I must have happy plants or something.. LOL!!

One question though... How long can I use the drop checker solution before I must change it out?

Thanks!!

 

[Mooner]

I replace my DC weekly with WC. Anybody else have opinion??

 

[Gargoyle]

It's been almost 2 months and I wanted to give an update...

The water is still very clear, Algae tracked down to improper C02 levels and lacking nutrients. I have found that as I increase the C02 and available nutrients that I can add light, increase 02 production as well as growth with no algae growth at all.

As a matter of fact just raising the C02 levels has allowed me to run more light. I am still limiting myself to 2 of the 54w T5 HO's right now but I have a pressurized system on order that will allow me to do other things with my lighting.

As with everything this takes time as well so I gave it a few weeks and I can honestly say the tank has taught me a lot as well as you that have helped me. I don't know if I can post pics in here but if I can once I get a recent one I'll post it up.

Thanks!!