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Limnophilia Aromatica and Java Fern with Excel

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by ceg4048, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hello,
    I have L. Aromatica stil transitioning to the submersed form which have begun to lose leaves as well as entire node segments. Additionally, Java Fern tips have become translucent. This only happens on the leaves which have grown submersed, never on the original emersed leaves. The ferns are in a large grove in the corner of the tank and detritus often settles on the leaves. A good shake dislodges quite a bit of mess so there seems to be poor flow within the clump.

    I immediately suspected CO2 since I dose approximately double the EI standard amount but I am also dosing Excel to supplement the gas injection.

    Is there a known poor response of L. Aromatica to Excel?
    Is Java Fern simply prone to leaf tip translucency or could poor CO2 distribution, or even Excel be the culprit?

    Cheers,
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I've not seen Excel cause issues for either plant, unless dosed out side the suggested ranges..........I have a massive stand in a client's tank of both these plants and they lose leaves, turn clear, black etc when CO2 is too low.

    I have repeated this several times because one of the helper monkey's was paranoid and keep reducing the CO2 after I left each week or the Gas ran out the next day, or I forget to turn on the pumps driving the CO2 system etc.
    Always something.

    But it teaches you a lot about what the plants do to low CO2 even if everything else is run correctly(dosing has been steady for years as well as lighting).

    You should be able to tell, if you are observant, to just look at the tank and tell what you need to add more of. Generally CO2, water change, low O2, etc.

    Ferts are harder to tell but algae is useful at severe issues.
    And of course, CO2 and BBA are normal but that takes a few weeks, I've gone a week without CO2 and not gotten BBA and yes, there's the spores etc present for it and some tiny turfs here and there.

    But 1-3 weeks will induce most species.

    Excel I might use as an algicide or "I have not yet tweaked and figured out my CO2 yet".

    But it really is not needed if the CO2 is used correctly.
    See the CO2+ current thread also.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Yes, thanks. I agree completely and that's why I have reworked my current as well as the injection. In my tank, a 150G which is 24 inch tall the most sensitive to carbon starvation has been HC, Tonina Belem and Amania. At various stages of improved current and injection I observe healthier growth. Yes, I am using the Excel to tide me over and yes, I am dosing outside the limits, around 1.5X recommended amounts daily but normal amount at water change. This is the first time I have observed a significant decline as the three listed above have all recovered and are flourishing. It seems there is yet another CO2 level/flow to achieve. Thanks for the response.

    Cheers,
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Larger tanks have more current issues and a lot more dead spots.
    See the current and CO2 thread I recently posted.

    The other thing is that some plants respond differently to lower CO2, Myriophyllum will be okay, but L cuba will not.

    But in a small tank, HC and L cuba a re weeds.

    The difference is as distance and plant biomass increases, the same Flow/gal rate is reduced.

    No way around it.

    So you can use things like CO2 mist to break up the boundary layers and get the CO2 to the right location.

    That, and less light(less CO2 demand).

    Regards,
    Tom barr
     
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