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Lighting Spectrum To Target Plant Quality Vs Plant Mass Yield

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by Justin gililland, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Justin gililland

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    Not sure if I'm doing this right I couldnt figure out how to create a post but I found this article starting so here we go..
    However a highly contevertial topic among the hobby ive only found arguments and general evidence here and there about lighting specteums and plant growth. Theres lots out there pointing toward a full spectrum/white light range for the best visual colors and growth rate. However im in the hobby not only because i enjoy it but also as a means to further expand my knowledge every day.

    What i have been researching and testing is the benefits of lighting that targets the most common light absorption wavelengths in the uv and visible spectrum to promote pigment production, protien synthesis, amino synthesis etc. Rather than growing plants very fast. I've compiled a list of the most common pigments found in plants and the light wavelengths they absorb at the peaks thus insuring an efficiency factor minimizing waste light resulting in less chance of algae production and more par being used vs energy used to produce it, ie if using 100 par at substrate of full spectrum the absorption range is very little of the total projected wavelength rather than reflected then 100 par of an absorption focused wavelength should mean more light being absorbed/used by any given plant.

    Now let's not get too hung up or upset when I say light absorbed is light used bc it simply is, it may not be used for photosynthesis but it certainly is used in many biosynthetic pathways as well as heat transfer further driving biosynthesis. Furthermore plants are very efficient in this realm by using absorbed energy for photosynthesis even though the chloroplasts arent directly absorbing the photons. Many say this is pointless but if you think about it if you're really an aquatic plant enthusiast then why would trying to improve certain aspects and health values of the plant be pointless?

    I'm sure I've forgotten some but I will post some photos of my test tank which is a 20 long(innovative marine peninsula), ph is 5.8-6 with co2 injection(havnt tested offgas in a while so idk the specific drop), we need to test alkalinity and hardness as it's been a while for that aswell lol... but as far as controls the tank is dosed thrive + via an autodoser 3x a day (8am,10am,12pm), lighting is an oddysea quad t5ho with hortilux 420,460,633,660 bulbs 420,633 8am-2pm 460,660 10am-4pm and a sunblaster woth an agromax pure uv for uvb supplementation from 12pm-2pm I believe, water changes use pure ro water no remineralizing roughly 50% in january I will be adding another auto dosing pump for a 5% nightly auto waterchange ome waste line one ro line.
     
    #1 Justin gililland, Sep 6, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
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  2. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Interesting topic.

    Ive moved this to the proper forum instead of being an article

    Images you either have to host them somewhere and put them between [ img] link [ /img] tags, or use the site's upload feature

    May I suggest putting all the images you want to use for the thread in a single folder on your computer before you begin to make it easier.

    Also I would suggest breaking the OP up into paragraphs to make it easier to read.

    Like anything worthwhile, it does require a certain degree of effort on your part. :)
     
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  3. Justin gililland

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    Yessir lol I'll try to fix it
     
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  4. Phishless

    Phishless Lifetime Member
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    Back to the title of your topic.

    I've never tried to get a large yield from plant growth.
    With some species it is next to impossible to limit their growth though.

    Premium growth I have always targeted.
    Have experimented with several different DIY LED arrangements over the past years.

    UV within LED technology is not a win unless big $$$ are spent.

    If any are interested I am blending several LED's on my pucks.
    15K white, 460nm, 520nm, and the weed growers favorite full spectrum types.
    The full spectrums range from 380nm - 780nm.
     
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  5. Justin gililland

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    Heres a few pics of the test tank. Were still getting it where we want it and trying a different carpet species, added 5 stems of s. Kerala to see if I prefer its growth rate and pattern over the s. Repens I've grown bored of I may end up carpeting with various buce sp. If I dont like it for this tank. The first pic is the most recent from this morning the rest are over the last couple weeks...
    Observations so far are much slower growth and nutrient uptake hinting the plant is morphing to a survival state focusing on quality of cells rather than production of cells, pigment saturation to help aid with the high par and uvb, heavier rooting.
    Edit: attached my current combined spectrograph of the 4 hortilux bulbs I'm utilizing and a spectrograph for the agromax pure uv for uvb supplementation

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    #5 Justin gililland, Sep 7, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
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  6. Phishless

    Phishless Lifetime Member
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    This is why I blend 1 full spectrum to 1 15K.
    No pink and purple effects.
     
  7. Justin gililland

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    Yeah that is a downside but in a few months once the tank is where I want it we will add a 7500k bulb in place of the uv bulb and turn off the rest of the lights for a better full spectrum comparison. Also the way I have a ramp effect on the 420 and 633 come on first for heavy blue with orange/red supplemental lighting then overlapping and finishing with 460 and 660 for heavy red with blue/green supplemental lighting the uvb is a strongbulb which I havnt measured par increase yet with it on but it is run 2 hrs midday for a bit extra oomph.. I probably should have redone my carpet before starting this so disregard any old growth you see lol it was that way when we started
     
    #7 Justin gililland, Sep 7, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
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  8. Justin gililland

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    Heres the spectrum list I'm trying to target for pigment absorption however so mainly going for the 400-500(some up to 520) and 620-680 peaks I did find a bulb after the fact that's close to what I want but it does have a significant green peak

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  9. Justin gililland

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    Heres a pic in my 40 breeder. The lud. super red up front was transplanted from the 20 long note the color and size difference between it and the super red behind it. Heres a crappy top angle the deeper purple/red is from the 20 long.. also note the shiney texture I assume this is oils secreted from the plant caused by the uvb.
    Another odd note is that I'm dosing near 50ppm weekly with <5ppm no3 and <.25ppm po4 and getting fairly slow growth due to lighting... I'll attach a rotala butterfly of the daily dose... all followed by some current growth/colorations. The last photo was darkened slightly

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    #9 Justin gililland, Sep 11, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  10. Justin gililland

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    So i predicted that by targeting pigment absorption based wavelengths and eliminating the majority of the spectrum that is mainly just for obervation/aesthetics and by supplementing uv(uvb in my case) that the growth would slow down produce more pigmentation and change its synthesis pathways to elongate cell life rather than cell production.
    The slow growth is what confuses ppl how do i not have fast growing plants with high light and nutrients... well using the spectrum i am the plant is in survival mode rather than repeoduction mode so its growing an elaborate root system to offset the uptake and lack of foliage production(its there just slow) and as yall can see the tank is thriving growing slow and plants are super healthy and clean

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  11. Justin gililland

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    Some reason it wouldnt led me add this photo unless its in a new commwnt so here it is

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  12. Phishless

    Phishless Lifetime Member
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    Don't know? I have rapid growth with an expanding root system.
    In my case I think the capped soil plays a role in this.

    Continue on! Still interesting! :D
     
  13. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    That Wavepoint UG looks great on paper but its a very weird bulb. It's not bright...at all, to either the eyes or the PAR meter. It's also a very harsh purple that I find very unpleasant. Needs other heavy red and blues to balance it out. ( I realize the point of your experiment here is yield not looks)

    It can work in a 4 bulb combo, 6 is better. Im currently running one along with a 3000K, Powerveg 633, ATI purp/or 420 actinic

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Plants look pretty good with this combo but it doesnt do the moss any favors due to the lack of much green in the spectrum.

    Side note: when its time to split that E lineare let me know and I'll buy a few from you
     
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  14. Justin gililland

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    Actually my experiment is the opposite its looks not yield as ive stated many times hell this tank grows extremely slow despite the high uptake/dosing background plants take nearly a month to add 1-2", you just cant tell because everyone is trained to have an ideal look such as 6500-7500k range of spectrums.. thats what nobody can grasp, how can i begoing for looks if i have "purple" light as ive stated 1. Plant health. 2. Pigment production. 3. Growth suppression.
    Personally i think this spectrum looks great especially when you zoom in and start appreciating how healthy each individual species is. The real test will be when i put a 7500k bulb over this tank in january after everything has had ample time to adapt to the conditions and we can see colorations/growth patterns.
    One thing about the hobby i find confusing is people who shun others for using supplemental lighting in a normal tank to make certain plants pop... thats the point of the pigment lol if you have a pigment that reflects red light put a red light over it the redder the better for looks who cares thats what pigments do rhey reflect and absorb light lol.
    And to reiderate i believe by targeting pigment absorption spectrums and eliminating non essential "aesthetic" poised lighting we can offer higher par of a spectrum the light can use more efficiently, intensity and range of spectrum will vary results such as mine with slow growth using the specteum posted below along with strong uvb lighting for 2 hrs a day. I also believe this is forcing the plant into a survival mode persay, in the sense that it has everything it needs so rather than reproduction(ie high yield of plantmass/growth) it is choosing to maintain and focus on current cellular health and maintenance hince the slow growth and massive rooting

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  15. Justin gililland

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    Im not using any wavepoint btw it does look good on paper but i have no room for it plus i dont want/need that green spike im running an agromax pure uv on a supplemental sunblaster and hortilux 420,460,633,660 on a 30"(24"bulb) oddysea quad t5 sitting on the tank on legs
     
  16. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    I don’t know if UV causes plants to go into survival. In nature UV is abundant. You initial introduction might cause some of that but as it becomes regular affair, plants will adapt.
     
  17. Justin gililland

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    Yeah but in nature the uvb value is quite low its mainly uva i havnt tested par increase to see if the par meter will pick up uv yet.. heres a video showing how powerful the agromax pure uv is in uvb output its about 7x the strengrh at 24" as the sun output wherever he is. Edit: my 24" uvb is about 12" from plants too lol
     
  18. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Oh! Think I got confused reading the facebook thread which had already turned into an abortion of herp derping by the time I read it
     
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  19. Justin gililland

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    Yupp thats why i came here lol
     
  20. rajkm

    rajkm Article Editor
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    Justin attracts herp
    I think I am also going back to forum strolling instead of FB which has become a trolling place. (I am part guilty of that)
     
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