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Lighting advice requested

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by algaehater, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. algaehater

    algaehater Lifetime Members
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    Hello. I am hoping to ask the same old question again...Can you please help me choose lighting?


    Background. I run a 40B. I removed 2 BML strips from 29g tanks that I was running. Basically I am running 2 30" dutch on my 40B. One original and one XB. Not that my tank is out of the noobie stage and I am growing higher end and relatively rare and expensive plants I feel like I am losing a lot of real estate in my tank by only using 30" strips. I feel like I am only getting 26-28" of really good light and after that it drops off dramatically. I have come down to two options that I am now seriously considering. On a side note, this is a tank that is a furniture piece in my living room so I don't want anything that is large, ugly or lights up the whole room.


    1) Kessil A160WE Tuna Sun x 2. I really like the small pendant look but I have never seen these in person. I read many things regarding spectrum of these lights but not specifically for this model. It seems most of the reviews I read for the 160 is for the blue version for reefs.


    2) BML 36" strips. One multi channel 6300k and one 10k as suggested by BML. I know BML makes quality lights and have nothing but praise for their quality and ability to grow plants in my tanks as I have been using BML for ~3 years.


    This said I do grow a lot of red plants in this tank. I would say it is predominantly red. Rotala mini butterfly, rotala ramsoir Florida, rotala ramsoir sunset, rotala mac mini, blood vomit, red downoi, ammannia bonsai, rotala caterpillar, star repens, asst. pin cusion erio and a few rare buce to name a few. Being the case I need my lighting to really show off my reds like the BML dutch 6300k does.


    My concern with Kessil is the lack of data and lack of knowledge of lighting spectrums to understand if they will provide what I am looking for. Can anyone please help me determine if the Kessil lights would be a good choice or am I taking a step back in terms of light spectrum and quality in exchange for better cosmetics in terms of the fixture?
     
  2. Solcielo lawrencia

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    Look at the LED or spectral information. That will tell you all you need about the differences between those two brands.


    Kessil lacks this for good reason; they don't want you to know.
     
  3. algaehater

    algaehater Lifetime Members
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    I noticed that they do not publish much data when trying to find PAR info. What I could find is based on the 150 and not very detailed, but approximate. I could also find not much in terms of reviews beyond a couple sales pitches from Youtube guys who clearly were comped lights to pitch. I was hoping to see if anyone uses them that has had success with them.


    My gut tells me to stick with BML but those pendants are very slick...if they grow plants as well.
     
  4. algaehater

    algaehater Lifetime Members
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    I have been reassessing my lighting dilemma and I am now down to two finalists


    1) BML x 2 (Likely Dutch Multi-channel with a 10k since I have no idea what to do with the spectrum builder)


    2) ATI SunPower T5 (not sure if I would go with the 4 bulb or 6. Haven't researched bulbs yet)


    It seems both of these options will be similarly priced once I buy bulbs for the T5. Bulb changing is not really an issue. Light bleed over the sides is my biggest concern since this aquarium is part of our living room and my wife needs it to to look good. Would this fixture light up the room? I also would noy like to hand higher that 6-8 inches above waterline. Would this present a problem?
     
  5. Solcielo lawrencia

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  6. islanddave

    islanddave Subscriber

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  7. Solcielo lawrencia

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    Does it not show up?
     
  8. islanddave

    islanddave Subscriber

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    Not for me I wonder if I have to register for bml?
     
  9. islanddave

    islanddave Subscriber

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  10. Kathy Yata

    Kathy Yata Junior Poster

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    While you are shopping try raising the fixtures up a few inches so the light spread is better. I don't find that the light spill from the LED hung 16" off my tank to be annoying but then the previous lights were metal halide screened with a sheet of painted acrylic. If it isn't acceptable after a couple days then maybe you are ready to buy new lights by then.
     
  11. Solcielo lawrencia

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    No pictures, but the color will be similar to midday sun. BML Horticulture "solar max" has a picture with similar LEDs so you can look at that one.
     
  12. PhilipS

    PhilipS Lifetime Members
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    My ADA dealer has them in the display tanks. There is ample PAR in the tank corners (over 100). Personally tested with my Hoppy PAR meter.


    When I had the MrAqua30's the kessils proved to be the best lighting. Regardless of how you tune the light the plants still see the full spectrum.


    When they reopen tomorrow I'll go check out the PAR on the Aquatic Life Halo LED. It's a 5" cube unit with a dimmer and timer included (deluxe model) for $350.
     
  13. PhilipS

    PhilipS Lifetime Members
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    Not every manufacturer is on board with PAR.


    I visited the ADA dealer today.


    On the display tank ADA 48x18x18 is now a single Halo LED. At max intensity there is a minimum of 50 PAR in the corners. Image with Halo attached.


    The 2 Kessils were moved to an even larger ADA tank where now the latest re-scape is focusing on medium to low light plants. Just as the Halo LED, there is plenty of light in the corners when just using one Kessil LED pendant.


    I used the PAR meter to adjust the LEDs.


    The ADA dealer is not having issues with red plants under the Kessils, just as I never did. In fact, the reds grew with better color.


     
    #13 PhilipS, Dec 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2015
  14. Chris Noto

    Chris Noto Lifetime Members
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    This spectrum chart is from Kessil's site:





    Just sayin'...

    image_5306.png
     
    #14 Chris Noto, Dec 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2015
  15. PhilipS

    PhilipS Lifetime Members
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    Listen to the OP.


    The results are in the "new" plant growth.


    You guys are making this happy thread into an argument between non-experts.


    No one even began discussing PUR. No one else actually has seen or used the Kessil or Halo Pendant lights.


    Seriously no experts, no beer, no basis for slamming one brand over another based on what's on the web.


    Because we all know, if its on the web then it's true.


    Have a Happy New Year!
     
    #15 PhilipS, Dec 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2015
  16. Solcielo lawrencia

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    It's not the growth we are looking at but coloration of plants. If you want plants to be more red - have higher anthocyanin concentration - then the spectrum must include higher levels of red (and violet). The spectrum is more important than just for coloration. Higher levels of green light induce the elongation of internodes, which results in "leggy" growth and actually makes plants appear to grow faster. Thus, it's not correct to imply that spectrum doesn't matter. It matters a lot for growth morphology.
     
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    ADA tanks tend to target that 40-50 umol range on the sediment.


    100 is pretty high light, you can grow anything nicely at that range and fairly fast.
     
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    This is part of it, but reflective color of the light itself is also a factor, perhaps equal in weight for some folks. Some like the whiter bluer tinge to lighting, others like it a bit warmer............some like it redder. It takes getting use to some of these colors. Most do NOT like yellowish color, but many Dutch in the NBAT groups like them and have long used them. I still cannot get use to those. So I use more red, less yellow. Still, it took me some time to get use the poorer CRI and odder color.


    I've used green T5 bulbs to see, did not find any leggy growth in a practical real planted tank myself.


    But I also did not have a radiospectrophotometer to check the T5 bulb spectral output :p


    Maybe I'll get one?


    4000$ laying around? Takes awhile to do it, but some units are easy to use and the software chugs out the graph pretty fast. Those cost more.


    BML's will have some decent options, but the fixtures are butt ugly. No pendants either.


    Boo!!


    Hopefully Kessil will add a few more Red emitters and fewer blues to the Tuna sun, it's a nice color aesthetically...........which is a good reason to use it.


    I know ADG uses them a lot, I'll ask Mike what he thinks.
     
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