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LED's by Ecoxotic?

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by Cyclesafe, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    Sorry I didn't mean to pooh pooh their claims, just state they were exaggerating a little.

    You won't be getting any heat problems from them as long as they are properly heatsinked. Similar to a properly electronic ballasted fluorescent however with fluorescent there is a much larger are that is getting hot so obviously that will affect its surrounding area much more.

    Similar to a small radiator turned up full blast isn't going to heat the room as well as a large radiator at half 'blast'.

    The Longevity claim is basically taking an old T8 ballast (electric and not electronic (often called magnetic) where it 'flicker' starts the tube. That is where the old 'change the tubes every 6 months claims' also come from. 6 months is a little off the mark IMO. More like a year or so whereas on electronic that can be extended to 3 years or so.

    Philips Luxeons are 'said' to last for 50000 hours (Manufacturer's statement) which equates to circa 6 years. (18 years if 8 hours a day!!!)

    So you will get double the longevity (24 hours) over electronically ballasted fluoros (not overdriven HOT5s) and 6-10x electric (magnetic) ballasted fluoros.

    So no worry with the heat. These get very very hot (do not touch them when they have been on a bit) however that heat is concentrated in a tiny area. The total heat over the whole length will be less then a fluorescent even though you can touch the tube and/or ballast without getting 3rd degree burns. It is the total amount of heat that is spread over the area which would determine the eminating heat.

    I was just stating that for them to say they produce virtually no heat. In fact, if you have an all-in-one, chances are you can turn off your fan is wrong. They produce a lot of heat in a small area. They should replace 'produce' with another term to state they aren't going to warm your tank water. That is if they are well vented and properly heatsinked.

    The fan statement is a bit of a joke really. LED users (with adequate heatsinking and ventilation) use fans not to cool the water but to assist the heatsinking. They are using them to reduce the risk of the LEDs frying just as PCs use fans to draw the heat away or blow cooler air from/onto the processor and heatsink. Nothing to do with water temperature. lol

    No idea why they have put a reflector there in the slightest. Of no use IMO with LEDs. Its lenses or nothing.

    I do have to state however I have been highly critical of these types of units over the past couple of years. One huge advantage of LEDs is the ability to space them well. like a grid and therefore spread the light out more evenly rather than be confined to 1 long length like tubes.

    These manufacturers don't seem to understand this 'spread' part. Either that or they are pandering to the consumer's desire for slimline units rather than a larger unit like mine :)

    On the PAR/PUR subject above. I am not sure where I am now. lol I am continuously learning and continually correcting my mis-informed knowledge which I find to be one of the most enjoyable aspects of this hobby, if not life in general. Its great to learn :)

    AC
     
    #21 SuperColey1, Feb 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2011
  2. 1aqufish

    1aqufish Junior Poster

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    Just a couple of comments. I have been to one of there show rooms and there set-ups are impressive. I agree with your comments about the lack of usable information from them. On the why a 12 led assembly at 1 watt per LED's draw 13 watts is accounting for the driver in the base of the bulb.
     
  3. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    The driver won't be in the base of the LED. It will be a small PC board that leads from the power and then onto the LEDs like below (this one is less than an inch square. Just a little smaller than the stars:

    [​IMG]

    I forgot about the driver. lol That would account for the extra watt. Sometimes we are blind when faced with number he, he. So good thinking there.

    AC
     
  4. Cyclesafe

    Cyclesafe Guru Class Expert

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    It's troublesome that there's not more information. If Ecoxotic's technology were truly eclipsing, it would seem that they would offer specific comparisons to the status quo. Instead their response to me was (and I paraphrase) "it depends". That's hardly the retoric of the revolutionary.

    Anyway, I am certainly not an early adopter. I'll wait and see.....
     
  5. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    The problem is that most of the 'accurate' information actually comes from the users. Also huge swathes of poor information but you have to sift the good from the bad as with anything.

    The manufacturers don't really know the answers because the answers are unknown. Even for fluorescent and MH we are only now getting to the stage where we can roughly get some good PAR information. Even then we are looking at ranges and not understanding fully about what within this range is being used by the plants etc.

    It's highly unlikely that we'll ever see accurate information regarding plants from the manufacturers. The actual LED manufacturer don't care about the 0.01% that use their lights for aquariums let alone the 0.0000001% that use them for planted tanks.

    If info ever were to come available it would be in terms of marine as that is where the bulk of the aquarium hobby is and they also use 10x light that we need :)

    AC
     
  6. 1aqufish

    1aqufish Junior Poster

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    I have found that manufactures are either geared toward the flashlight or the marine market. I don't know enough about PAR, PUR but have wondered about using a video camera hooked to a waveform monitor, to measure how much light at what freq, but to do any useful controlled testing would cost so much. I am a broadcast engineer so these tools are familiar to me.
     
  7. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    Indeed you are the same wavelengths as me. Those who are really interested in the specific subject buy PAR meters. For me I can't really justify that cost for 1 tank :)

    I would suggest more a case of try and see with the stock lighting. Rule out other aspects as problems before deciding it is the light. Only then upgrade etc. Even then I would doubt it were the light that caused the problem.

    AC
     
  8. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    nipat - Forget my ramblings. You were right ;)

    PAR is indeed a energy available for photosynthesis and PUR is the actual useful amount within the PAR range.

    Not sure how there are 0-300 on that chart I linked to unless that was taken with a different measure.

    So thats all cleared up and corrected :)

    AC
     
  9. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    You guys might like this. The link below is to another DIY build. This was made after mine but is by the guy who virtually 'e-held my hand' (He was replying in my project threads.

    This one has PCB boards to control both LEDs and T5s dimming to make a smooth sunset/sunrise rather my rather crude 5 series on 5 timers on 5 plugs. lol

    Well worth a read

    http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=13684

    AC
     
  10. 1aqufish

    1aqufish Junior Poster

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    That's one great build.
     
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