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Koi Angle laid eggs

Discussion in 'Fish for Planted Tanks' started by Tug, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    My Koi Angles just spawned, again. I haven't even had time to look for information on what to do next. They seam to be dutiful parents. I may rear them in the same tank this go around and hope for the best.
    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Tug, Oct 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2010
  2. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Congratulations

    Hi Tug,

    Congratulations, breeding activity is one of the best indicators things are going well.:)

    My advice is just let Mom and Dad do their child-rearing thing, the first couple of tries, don’t get too excited, first time Angel parents tend to misfire or get confused. One thing you can do is give them a night light, just enough so they can keep track of the eggs.

    In a 20-gallon tank, you may need to add a net or two so the other fish can get away. As you have probably observed the Angels are extremely territorial and really want an exclusion zone of about 2 feet in all directions.

    If not a misfire (or two females) you should start seeing wrigglers in 36 hours or so.

    Biollante
     
  3. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Update

    The good news is the pair seam to be male and female and should spawn again. The bad news is that I was having trouble with my filter and created low O2 levels and I've been fooling around with CO2 levels which (good news) seam to be fairly high for a DIY setup. The pair waited till all the eggs that looked viable died and then gobbled them down after about five days. Oh well, at least I have some time to get ready for the next time, if there is a next time.
     
  4. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Not Your Fault

    Hi,

    Sounds as though they are trying to be responsible parents.;)

    For what it is worth your CO2 level adjustments were unlikely to have played a role. I have found that rarely are first or even second mating successful. :confused:

    If you wish to encourage more breeding activity, back off the temperature a bit, feed them live food or at least rich food and then in about 10 days turn he temperature up to 82F or thereabouts. Consider getting a piece of slate and set it at a 30 degree or so angle, that way the will not be as likely to mess up your plants.;)

    Biollante
     
  5. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Congratulations on the spawn. That's a nice looking koi angel in the background; hopefully the fry will show it's genetics. Is that the male or the female in the background? I can't quite tell if there's a hump on its forehead.

    -Philosophos
     
  6. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hmm... one problem

    To be honest, I forgot which one is which. I was looking at their dingle-dangles. The males will have quite narrow, somewhat angled, genital papillae. Often, these are visible a day or more before actual spawning. Females have shorter, blunter, more rounded papillae, and often these are not visible until spawning actually begins. I don't really see a nuchal hump on the male.
     
  7. DaBub

    DaBub Guru Class Expert

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    Can you tell me how to sex Angels?

    I thought they just had to pair off.

    Thank you
     
  8. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Sexing angels is a notorious headache outside of watching behavior during spawn. Tug described the process well enough then. Outside of that some males show a more distinguished hump on their forehead, but it's not an absolute method.

    -Philosophos
     
  9. DaBub

    DaBub Guru Class Expert

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    Thanks.:)

    Once they have spawned i can see difference

    judt wondering when you said the forehed hump if i missed something.
     
  10. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    He was just testing me. I need it now and then. ;)
     
  11. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    Congratulations!

    Once angles pair up, you can expect them to keep breeding as long as the conditions stay the same.

    I've had them lay their eggs on the glass and on a heater, as well as plants.

    The consensus is that the only way to sex them is when they are breeding, by looking at their "dingle dangles" as you so aptly put it. :)

    If you want to raise any of the young, they, the eggs, or the pre-spawn parents should be moved to
    a separate tank. Moving the parents would also eliminate the chaos that will ensue when the parents try to keep the other inhabitants away from the fry.

    Bill
     
  12. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Thanks for the congratulations aquabillpers. I'll tell the missus your reason for another tank. It's just the reason I need to get another tank up and running. Hey, the Angelfish were her idea. I warned her we might need to get a larger tank. I kind of like chaos myself though I might add the nets as Biollante suggested.
     
  13. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Biological Imperatives

    Hi,

    Angels are a great excuse for a 55 or 70-gallon tank.;)

    Just a mention about that chaos, it may seem amusing but those “Angels” as they mature are quite capable of killing or seriously injuring everybody including themselves in a confined area. The Angelfish really want a two-foot exclusionary zone. Even in a standard 55-gallon tank, if they set up in the middle they can do a lot of damage, quicker than you might imagine.

    Those docile Angels can get really nasty when the biological imperatives kick-in.

    Make sure the missus is nowhere near otherwise a ‘mi against fa' note of prolonged dissonance could occur, then there will be the Devil to pay. :eek:

    Truth be told and this is where the slate breeding surfaces come in handy, when the spawning has taken place you can remove the eggs to a gallon or so container treated with a heavy dose of methyl blue, well aerated and kept at a stable temperature of 82-86F. I like 85 F, no great science just my experience.

    If interested I can take you through the process though I imagine there are like a hundred websites that deal with breeding Angelfish, ending up with a couple of hundred, is a lot of fun the first few times, also causes one to wonder how ‘they’ manage to charge so much for them. :confused:

    Biollante
     
  14. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    It's all good.

    Hi Biollante,

    Thank you for some valuable tips. I'll put them to use when I get more time. I know it sounds cruel, but I don't mind the aborted attempts for now. I just went through another unsuccessful spawning and I'm sure there will be more attempts. The temperature has been a stable 80F so I'll see what happens if I increase it a little.

    The two anglefish mimick what can only be described as kissing, very passionate kissing. :D
     
    #14 Tug, Nov 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2009
  15. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Sex is Good

    This is amazing. Eggs, every 14 days with this pair. Not many, maybe 18 survived my inexperience this time. If I'm lucky with this pair I'll have 2-8 years to get it right.

    The eggs were placed in a separate 2.5gal. tank with a little Methylene Blue. Next, I watched the teeny-tiny, helpless creatures wiggle for about 8-10 days. No food, the fry were still feeding from their yolk sack.

    After about day 10 a combination of frozen rotifer, spirolena, and an artificial plankton/rotifer feed soaked in Selcon food booster makes up their diet. It's now almost 4 weeks into this.

    Funny, but the parents did not like it when I took the eggs from the tank. Now, the eggs are being laid in a fashion that makes them more difficult to remove from the tank. The first time they laid eggs (after seeing I could remove the leaf with eggs) they laid their eggs on the glass. The second time it was on a tangled, intertwined group of A. crispus leaves. During this time, the parents have spawned twice.

    Plants, I have to think, are a huge reason these fish are so eager to bread.
    [​IMG]
     
    #15 Tug, Sep 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2010
  16. dbazuin

    dbazuin Guru Class Expert

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    Koi angels I have to google them to know what you mean.
    Great looking fish, congratulations with this great pair.
     
  17. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Thank you

    Pterophyllum scalare var. but honestly I'm not sure of what I have. The lfs I got them from didn't give me much information. I think they are Gold Marble Blushing (AKA "Koi"). There is also a Blushing Gold Marble (AKA "Blue Koi," AKA "Silver Gold Marble Blushing") varieties. All pretty confusing if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterophyllum

    Here is a really bad picture of dad from over a year ago.
    [​IMG]
    Both parents.
    [​IMG]
     
    #17 Tug, Sep 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2010
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