Koi Angle laid eggs

Tug

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My Koi Angles just spawned, again. I haven't even had time to look for information on what to do next. They seam to be dutiful parents. I may rear them in the same tank this go around and hope for the best.
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Biollante

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Congratulations

Hi Tug,

Congratulations, breeding activity is one of the best indicators things are going well.:)

My advice is just let Mom and Dad do their child-rearing thing, the first couple of tries, don’t get too excited, first time Angel parents tend to misfire or get confused. One thing you can do is give them a night light, just enough so they can keep track of the eggs.

In a 20-gallon tank, you may need to add a net or two so the other fish can get away. As you have probably observed the Angels are extremely territorial and really want an exclusion zone of about 2 feet in all directions.

If not a misfire (or two females) you should start seeing wrigglers in 36 hours or so.

Biollante
 

Tug

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Update

The good news is the pair seam to be male and female and should spawn again. The bad news is that I was having trouble with my filter and created low O2 levels and I've been fooling around with CO2 levels which (good news) seam to be fairly high for a DIY setup. The pair waited till all the eggs that looked viable died and then gobbled them down after about five days. Oh well, at least I have some time to get ready for the next time, if there is a next time.
 

Biollante

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Not Your Fault

Hi,

Sounds as though they are trying to be responsible parents.;)

For what it is worth your CO2 level adjustments were unlikely to have played a role. I have found that rarely are first or even second mating successful. :confused:

If you wish to encourage more breeding activity, back off the temperature a bit, feed them live food or at least rich food and then in about 10 days turn he temperature up to 82F or thereabouts. Consider getting a piece of slate and set it at a 30 degree or so angle, that way the will not be as likely to mess up your plants.;)

Biollante
 

Philosophos

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Congratulations on the spawn. That's a nice looking koi angel in the background; hopefully the fry will show it's genetics. Is that the male or the female in the background? I can't quite tell if there's a hump on its forehead.

-Philosophos
 

Tug

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Hmm... one problem

To be honest, I forgot which one is which. I was looking at their dingle-dangles. The males will have quite narrow, somewhat angled, genital papillae. Often, these are visible a day or more before actual spawning. Females have shorter, blunter, more rounded papillae, and often these are not visible until spawning actually begins. I don't really see a nuchal hump on the male.
 

DaBub

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Philosophos;42318 said:
Congratulations on the spawn. That's a nice looking koi angel in the background; hopefully the fry will show it's genetics. Is that the male or the female in the background? I can't quite tell if there's a hump on its forehead.

-Philosophos

Can you tell me how to sex Angels?

I thought they just had to pair off.

Thank you
 

Philosophos

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Sexing angels is a notorious headache outside of watching behavior during spawn. Tug described the process well enough then. Outside of that some males show a more distinguished hump on their forehead, but it's not an absolute method.

-Philosophos
 

DaBub

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Thanks.:)

Once they have spawned i can see difference

judt wondering when you said the forehed hump if i missed something.
 

aquabillpers

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Congratulations!

Once angles pair up, you can expect them to keep breeding as long as the conditions stay the same.

I've had them lay their eggs on the glass and on a heater, as well as plants.

The consensus is that the only way to sex them is when they are breeding, by looking at their "dingle dangles" as you so aptly put it. :)

If you want to raise any of the young, they, the eggs, or the pre-spawn parents should be moved to
a separate tank. Moving the parents would also eliminate the chaos that will ensue when the parents try to keep the other inhabitants away from the fry.

Bill
 

Tug

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Thanks for the congratulations aquabillpers. I'll tell the missus your reason for another tank. It's just the reason I need to get another tank up and running. Hey, the Angelfish were her idea. I warned her we might need to get a larger tank. I kind of like chaos myself though I might add the nets as Biollante suggested.
 

Biollante

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Biological Imperatives

Tug;42375 said:
Thanks for the congratulations aquabillpers. I'll tell the missus your reason for another tank. It's just the reason I need to get another tank up and running. Hey, the Angelfish were her idea. I warned her we might need to get a larger tank. I kind of like chaos myself though I might add the nets as Biollante suggested.

Hi,

Angels are a great excuse for a 55 or 70-gallon tank.;)

Just a mention about that chaos, it may seem amusing but those “Angels” as they mature are quite capable of killing or seriously injuring everybody including themselves in a confined area. The Angelfish really want a two-foot exclusionary zone. Even in a standard 55-gallon tank, if they set up in the middle they can do a lot of damage, quicker than you might imagine.

Those docile Angels can get really nasty when the biological imperatives kick-in.

Make sure the missus is nowhere near otherwise a ‘mi against fa' note of prolonged dissonance could occur, then there will be the Devil to pay. :eek:

Truth be told and this is where the slate breeding surfaces come in handy, when the spawning has taken place you can remove the eggs to a gallon or so container treated with a heavy dose of methyl blue, well aerated and kept at a stable temperature of 82-86F. I like 85 F, no great science just my experience.

If interested I can take you through the process though I imagine there are like a hundred websites that deal with breeding Angelfish, ending up with a couple of hundred, is a lot of fun the first few times, also causes one to wonder how ‘they’ manage to charge so much for them. :confused:

Biollante
 

Tug

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It's all good.

Hi Biollante,

Thank you for some valuable tips. I'll put them to use when I get more time. I know it sounds cruel, but I don't mind the aborted attempts for now. I just went through another unsuccessful spawning and I'm sure there will be more attempts. The temperature has been a stable 80F so I'll see what happens if I increase it a little.

The two anglefish mimick what can only be described as kissing, very passionate kissing. :D
 
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Tug

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Sex is Good

This is amazing. Eggs, every 14 days with this pair. Not many, maybe 18 survived my inexperience this time. If I'm lucky with this pair I'll have 2-8 years to get it right.

The eggs were placed in a separate 2.5gal. tank with a little Methylene Blue. Next, I watched the teeny-tiny, helpless creatures wiggle for about 8-10 days. No food, the fry were still feeding from their yolk sack.

After about day 10 a combination of frozen rotifer, spirolena, and an artificial plankton/rotifer feed soaked in Selcon food booster makes up their diet. It's now almost 4 weeks into this.

Funny, but the parents did not like it when I took the eggs from the tank. Now, the eggs are being laid in a fashion that makes them more difficult to remove from the tank. The first time they laid eggs (after seeing I could remove the leaf with eggs) they laid their eggs on the glass. The second time it was on a tangled, intertwined group of A. crispus leaves. During this time, the parents have spawned twice.

Plants, I have to think, are a huge reason these fish are so eager to bread.
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dbazuin

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Koi angels I have to google them to know what you mean.
Great looking fish, congratulations with this great pair.
 

Tug

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Thank you

Pterophyllum scalare var. but honestly I'm not sure of what I have. The lfs I got them from didn't give me much information. I think they are Gold Marble Blushing (AKA "Koi"). There is also a Blushing Gold Marble (AKA "Blue Koi," AKA "Silver Gold Marble Blushing") varieties. All pretty confusing if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterophyllum

Here is a really bad picture of dad from over a year ago.

Both parents.
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