Just when you think things are going right...

[ian]

My 90 gallon tank is entering its fourth week of cycling. I started it up from scratch with a brand new filter (and media), however the substrate was from an old tank I broke down about six months ago.

Details:

Subtrate: 3-5” of flourite
Lights: Sunlight supply T5 HO @ 108 watts, 8 hrs a day
Filtration: Eheim 2217
UV sterilizer: internal 9 watt on 24/7
CO2: Pressurized co2 with reactor, plumbed into the output of my filter.
Drop checker showing green, however I haven’t made up a proper solution for it. Currently just using tank water,
Plants: some HC planted sporadically around, some Eleocharis vivipara, Eleocharis parvula and Pygmy Chain Sword.

Using EI dosing – macros 3 times a week (KNO3 to over 20ppm, and KH2PO4 to over 2ppm) and Seachem Flourish three times a week.

Doing 50% and 25% water change once a week.

Problems:

The first three weeks went alright. At times, it seemed like I had some true pearling with my HC and it was starting to spread. My grasses were getting higher and sending off new runners, etc. I didn’t dose the first two weeks and started last week.

Last week I started dosing the above ferts and have since seen a pretty severe outbreak of what looks to be brown algae or green spot algae. However, it is only growing on rocks and substrate and there is no noticeable growth on the glass. In addition I am starting to notice some other algae stringing off some of my Chain Sword. I am also getting ‘scum’ algae on water surface. I have recently adjusted the spray bar to increase surface agitation.

I know the first thing I’m going to be told is to get some 4Dkh solution for my drop checker. I am planning to make some in the next couple days.

However, I’m looking for any major problems in the setup that anyone can see. In addition, does anyone have any advice in combating the first wave of this nasty algae? Or is this ‘normal’ for a new tank and something I should wait out. I’m just a little concerned as some of the algae is starting to grow on the HC! Nooooooooo!

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Tug]

.02

Your filter and CO2 stand out to me. If your using the spray bar to break up the surface scum then a lot of the CO2 is gassing off. Consider adding another filter and cleaning the one you have. Designate one filter for running CO2. In the CO2 designated filter, remove all the filter media except for a sponge filter, lower the position of the spray bar and place the intake about 3" from the surface. You might even want to split the output into two sepreat areas of the tank. This sounds like a water flow issue.

 

[dbazuin]

There is green and there is lime green.
Only when the checker is lime green there is enough CO2.
And yes you need a good test solution.
But as long there are no life stock in the tank you can up the Co2 quit a bit.

 

[dutchy]

Brown algae (diatoms) are normal for tank that have not cycled completely yet. You will have to sit that one out. Maybe you can post a pic for clarification. 50% waterchanges twice per week can help to lower the SiO3 level. Low PO4 also reduces growth of diatoms somewhat. But don't create a deficiency.

regards,
dutchy

 

[ian]

Tug,

I guess that makes complete sense, if I'm using the spray bar to create a lot of surface agitation I'm most likely letting a lot of CO2 escape.

I think I may lower the spray bar down again (with the CO2) and use a couple Koralia to create the surface agitation for the slime. Would this work? I've seen fans placed out of the tank blowing towards the water, are these used to create agitation?

dbazuin,

Yes! I am definitely kicking myself for not getting a proper solution up and running. That is a job for the weekend. Hopefully, I'll have some more accurate readings in a couple of days.

Dutchy,

I was hoping it was just a minor outbreak, but I think I'm well past that point. I have gotten advice on other forms to reduce the ferts a lot, as my tank hasn't grown in or fully matured. Would you agree?

I will post some pictures. I'm sure it will make things a little bit clearer.

Thanks again for all the replies. Without sites like this, I would have no idea where to start, this site is an amazing resource.

Keep it up!

Ian

[attachment=710:name]

 

[dutchy]

Dutchy,

I was hoping it was just a minor outbreak, but I think I'm well past that point. I have gotten advice on other forms to reduce the ferts a lot, as my tank hasn't grown in or fully matured. Would you agree?

I wouldn't know what the advantage is. Create a deficiency maybe?

regards,
dutchy

 

[Tug]

The Koralia would help.

Lowering the spray bar should keep CO2 from gassing off as quickly, but it might also lower the levels of O2. Just be careful to make the changes when you're able to spend the day watching your fish. I think you will find this a temporary fix at best.

Try running your reactor with a dedicated bump. Let the main filter aerate the water and provide some surface agitation. Underneath the main filter's spray bar, say 4-5", mimic the main filters flow pattern with the water from your reactor. Your lighting seams to be in the ball park. EI insures non-limiting nutrients. What's left? CO2/O2, water flow and one bunny rabbit.

[video=youtube;XcxKIJTb3Hg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg[/video]

 

[ian]

Thanks again Tug and Dutchy,

I moved the flow bar down about 5" and put in a Koralia (temporary free fix!) for agitation.

I finally got around to making up some drop checker solution. I had just the right amount of distilled water left over from making up macro solution!

I also did a 50% water change and scrubbed as much algae off my rocks as possible.

As far as a second filter goes, can I run something smaller (2215/2213) for my reactor? Or just use a pump? What kind of turnover rate should I be looking for on a 90 gallon tank?

 

[dutchy]

To run your reactor I'd use around 4 times turnover in bare pump capacity.

regards,
dutchy

 

[Tug]

Something like a Eheim Compact Plus 2000.
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3891

 

[ian]

Ok,

So my 2217 (264gph with no media) really isn't getting it done.

I am looking at two Eheim pumps the 1250 (320gph) and the 1260 (635 gph). The 1250 is the closest to 4 times my tank volume. I think that the 1260 would be overkill on my tank.

I'm using a Jelaco reactor I picked up in Japan this summer. I hope it does the trick.
[attachment=711:name]

 

[dutchy]

if it's the only flow you have in the tank I'd buy the big one. It's easy to slow down a pump. You can't make one turn faster.

regards,
dutchy

 

[Tug]

Sorry for the double post.

I just wanted to make sure you saw this. we posted at the same time and my post just got in before yours did.

Something like a Eheim Compact Plus 2000.
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3891

Specifications:

• $80
• 1000-2000 LPH (265-528 GPH)
• 32 Watt Power Consumption
• 3/4" Connection (Suction Side)
• 2.3M Head Pressure (7.5 feet)

 

[ian]

Thanks again,

I actually picked up an Eheim 2000! I saw your post and went out and snatched one up.

In the meantime, I lowered my spray bar and changed out the solution in my drop checker. The checker has turned deep green, but I think it needs to turn even greener and lighter for 30 ppm. However, I think I may have put too much regent in as it was very dark blue before putting it into the tank.

I think I'm going to lose some of my HC and chain sword as it is starting to become infested with brown diatoms.

This stuff is really tricky. My hat is off to all the experts on this forum.

Ian

 

[ian]

Well I have made some adjustments to my tank and can’t see any tangible results.

I picked up an Eheim Mini 2000 to have a dedicated loop for my co2. I have increased the Co2 substantially, but seem to only be able to get a lighter shade of green in my drop checker. If I turn the Co2 up too high my reactor ends up becoming almost completely full of Co2 by the end of the day.

I also put in two Korilias I had laying around, one to increase surface agitation (along with my spray bar) and the other to increase water circulation. I believe I have adequate flow around my tank as plants seem to by moving everywhere.

I am seeing a slow reduction of brown diatoms, however, my green hair algae is still lingering. I bought some Amano shrimp to try and take care of it.

I am not sure about my plants as there is no real noticeable change in growth. I had to take a lot of my HC out, as it was infested with diatoms. What is left has not grown much, if at all. My grasses haven’t got much taller and only some of my Chain Swords have sent off shoots.

I did come across one glaring problem. I tested my No3 yesterday and it was in the 40-80 ppm range. Then I decided to test phosphate and it was in the 3-4ppm range. My tap water came out with minimal levels, so I guess I have to cut back on dosing my macros.

Finally, the one strange thing I noticed today was my drop checker turned yellow when I was doing a water change. As soon as the water level dropped below the opening of the checker it changed colours fairly rapidly. Is this normal?

So I have a few questions:

Should I be putting in some faster growing stem plants to compete with the algae and see if I can grow anything?
Should I be seeing pearling if my ferts are in abundance and my co2 is over 20ppm?
Should I try and turn my other two bulbs on for a portion of my photoperiod to try and induce some HC growth?

 

[Gerryd]

Hi Ian,

I would be looking at these items specifically:

1). Light - I personally think you have more light than you think and need. Please do not add any more at this time.

Light is what drives plant growth and subsequent c02 and nutrient demand. I think your light is driving a higher c02 demand than you can support. T5 with reflectors provide plenty of light. Plus I am sure it sits right on the tank more or less correct? This leads me to my next item...

2). C02 - I think your reactor may be insufficient to the tank size. I tried a yahoo search and didn't really find any info. Can you provide any info on it?

I don't want to spend your money, but perhaps a DIY reactor (Tom's design I can find the thread/sticky) for

 

[ian]

Hi Gerry,

Thanks for the reply. I will take all the advice I can get!

My light is sitting about 6” off the top of the water. Should I be moving them even higher?

Your right about the reactor, I can’t find much information on it either. I simply bought it when I was in Japan because a serious aquascaping store recommended it to me. Basically, it is a canister with an input and an output for water flow. The output is the lowest tube and the input is about half way up the canister. The only design flaw I can see is that there is no ‘threw flow’, the water flows into the reactor on the horizontal and leaves vertically from the bottom. Sorry if this is hard to follow.

As far as the lights/co2/plant triangle, if my plants are taking up too much co2 than I can supply, shouldn't I be seeing some pearling?

As far the nutrients go, I am assuming from your reaction that nitrates and phosphates that high aren’t a problem? I am dosing Seachem Flourish three times a week (about 1 ½ caps) for micros. Should I be dosing anything else?

I don’t have any fish. However, last weekend I added snails and shrimp. The snails have all died, however, the shrimp seem to be doing fine. The snails dying had me worried about the nitrates and phosphates.

I think I read on Rex Grigg’s site a simple way of testing a nitrate test kit. Is it worthwhile to test my kit to see if it’s accurate and then go back and test my tank?

The pictures below show my setup. Both outputs are on the right side of my tank. The spray bar on the top and the co2 on the bottom. The inputs to the filter and pump are on both sides of the tank. Lastly, the Korilias and the drop checker are on the left side of the tank.

Thanks again
[attachment=722:name]

 

[Gerryd]

Hi Ian,

The spraybar to me looks like it is still very high up in the tank????? You really need to get the c02 from the bottom out, so it spends as much time in the water as possible....

What size hose does the reactor use? I am concerned that it is too small to provide sufficient flow to efficiently diffuse the c02 you are providing. Hence the reactor filling with gas by end of day...Tube diameter will always dictate flow to the reactor, regardless of pump size..

These two items could be a lot of it.

Yes, please go out and get LOTS of stem plants, even if you remove them later. They will assist in many ways and help you guage your progress.

From your pics, it seems that the light is very bright and I personally would investigate a means to hang the fixture for easy adjustment. This facilitates swapping between levels of light to find the right balance. I PERSONALLY think you have a lot of light still, but remember that I am NOT measuring your light, so my opinion on that is totally worthless.

Hang in there. It takes time for some of us...you should have seen my issues when I first joined lol Still have plenty, time and experience is a lot of it, honestly.

Hope this helps.



Once you have it planted and work on the c02 diffusion, let's wait 5-7 days and see what happens..

 

[ian]

Thanks Gerry,

My spraybar is the output for my filter, which is not plumbed in with my co2. The co2 comes into the tank through the U-shaped hose 1/3 the way down the right side of my tank. So, do you mean the spray bar should be pointing downwards or be lower in the tank even if is not involved with direct co2 input? I guess in any event it makes complete sense to introduce c02 deep in the tank, as gases will rise quickly. I will lower my pipe to just above the rock on the right-hand side of the tank.

I have to say; when I plumbed my pump and reactor I knew I was making some mistakes:

1) I used TWO 90 degree bends (one b/w the pump and reactor and one after the reactor). In addition, the pump uses 5/8 hose and the reactor barbs were ¾, so I had to reduce the flow into the reactor, then went bigger on the other side of the reactor. I spend about an hour at Home Depot trying to find a straight 5/8 barb, but the only one I could find was a 90 degree bend.

So I guess I need to head to Lowes as I hear they have a better selection of ABS accessories. It looks like I also wasted $90 on my reactor. As far as flow goes, I think the design is fairly flawed after reading up on most DIY reactor designs. As I stated above, the input of the reactor runs horizontally and the output pipe runs vertically from the bottom. I think I just need to trust in plumbing adhesive and build my own reactor.

Do you think I can just use the straight reactor without the Venturi loop and still be effective. I will be using 5/8 through the system with the only large bend at the top of the tank?

I can move my light up about an inch with the current hardware. However, I can easily attached the hardware to hang it, giving my many more options. I wonder if there is any data online about my light fixture and my tubes. Would this help my judge what a reasonable height is? I have a 24” tall tank with an average of 3 inches of Flourite. I have a T5HO Sun System – Tek Light with 54 watt 6700K Giesseman tubes. I actually think I remember reading over a forum here, about various PAR tests for different hardware.

Here is the fixture if you’re not familiar with it: http://www.specialty-lights.com/960035.html#details

I’m still a little miffed about not seeing any pearling. If my lights are too strong and my ferts are in abundance (per my store bought test kits), and my drop checker is light green on the opposite side of the tank, shouldn’t I see some kind of pearling?

I know what you’re talking about as far as time and patience. I have been at it for well over a year know and feel I may be close (crossing fingers). It’s crazy to think how easy I thought this might be when I first started, not to mention the terrible hardware and the extreme lack of knowledge I had.

Once again, I am really appreciative of all the help and suggestions.

Finally, sorry for the long posts. I feel when discussing these things over a forum, the more specific the better.

Ian

 

[ian]

New DIY reactor, I touch too long?

Well I took a trip to Lowes and mixed and matched some ABS and PVC to come up with a simple DIY reactor.
[attachment=725:name]

For some reason I had 24” in my head when assembling it, and now I have a huge reactor. I have no idea why 2’ stuck in my head, but now I’m wondering if it is much too long for my pump (Eheim Mini 2000 – rated just under 550 on the upper end of output). If I hang my reactor from the top of the tank, I am looking at a 2’ head, reducing my flow rate to about 250 gallons (from chart I have on the pump). That’s not even taking into account the reduced flow b/c of the increased diameter of the reactor. I really think I made one of those stupid mistakes and as you all know, these kind can`t be reversed when you`re using PVC adhesive.

So, judging from most schematics I have looked at, is it best to mount the pump in between the outlet of the aquarium and inlet of the reactor? I’m looking for any suggestions for maximizing the output of my pump. I will try and avoid any sudden change of directions or bends, but after that I have no idea on how to maximize flow.

Feeling a bit clueless