This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Jungle Vals melting

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by charter, May 1, 2007.

  1. charter

    charter Guest

    Local Time:
    1:55 PM
    I have noticed that my Jungle Vals are melting. I use the EI method and last week I ran out of Flourish but I have Seachem trace so I started using it , with the thought that once it was used up I could get back to the Flourish. I have also cut the amount of PO4 by half based on a Hagen test kit as it showed the tank levels to be higher than the kit could measure. Even now it still shows it to be high (5.0 mg/l). These two changes are the only things that have been changed, I do have CSM+B that I will add today. Any ideas on what is doing this? Any ideas that would solve this?

    thanx charter
     
  2. sherry

    sherry Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    7:55 PM
    I don't know if this is why your vals are melting, but trace is literally like water (with a few extra minerals) I have a bottle of it I'm happy to send over if you like, but I'd never rely on it as my fert
     
  3. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    3
    Local Time:
    7:55 PM
    Did the phosphate level rise rapidly? If so, that might be a sign that something is awry in your aquarium.

    It also might be that the test kit is giving incorrect results. I think Hagen and Nutrafin merged, and the current kits emphasize the "Nutrafin" name. Maybe your kit is out of date.

    You might buy a bottle of distilled water at your local food market and test it with the kit. if it is other than clear or close to it, you need another kit.

    Here is a link to the results of a test I made of the accuracy of four inexpensive phosphate test kits.

    http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-of-aquatic-fertilizing/39719-a-comparison-of-four-phosphate-test.html

    Bill
     
  4. Naja002

    Naja002 Prolific Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    7:55 PM
    Are You dosing Excel at all? Vals are one of the plants that are sensitive to it.
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,648
    Likes Received:
    562
    Local Time:
    7:55 PM
    Bill, the human factor is really an issue here.
    Some think blue is greenish blue, some think green is bluish green etc.
    You ask 5 people what happened in their tank and you'll get 5 different answers..........

    PO4 test kits are not that accurate over those scales really.
    You an get general use from them..........

    But you also need to test these test kits at more than one point.

    So test at a low range, a mid range and high range over the entire range of interest.

    Few do this.............

    This is how you make a calibration curve just like using a pH monitor.

    Some measure 1.0ppm of PO4 and think because it's accurate, then the kit is fine at 2ppm or at 0.2ppm, that's not true.

    0.5, 1.0 2.0 are okay, but a factor of 10 may be better.

    So 0.02, 0.2, 2.0, 20 ppm etc.

    I think getting resolve at lower ends of things is extreemely important if you do any limiting work.

    You did well to address issues in the test however.
    I think the data you presented is well supported and should stand.

    If you look at the DI and Well water data, the disturbing pattern does emerge however.

    The test kits are reading detection of PO4 in non detect waters.............

    So folks that think they have low levels, but not absent, are really being fooled and these test kits are totally non useful for such monitoring.

    They provide okay resolution for a large wider range, "an estimation", which is not much better than EI.

    That range of estimation is why I called it a estimative index.
    There is a lot of error, in the time of the test taking, the other factors involved.

    To try and make some precise model and specific ppms is really unrelatistic for hobbyists.

    The model loses is robustnesses.
    Plants are more flexible than that, until you start getting into limiting ranges..........


    Then you need high precision and accuracy, something these kits will/cannot provide.

    This is why I chose to use a model that uses a higher range of nutrients, rather than just enough to barely prevent limitations.

    While I can measure such relationships and have long known the issues here, many folks/hobbyists are just learning and seeing for themselves, many think I'm nuts, but if you have done the work and look and think about it, I'm not so crazy after all. But many do not do the work............or have not progressed enough to have synthesized it well.

    So they still think I'm a nut etc.

    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
    I try to keep that in mind when I learn something new myself.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. charter

    charter Guest

    Local Time:
    1:55 PM
    Hey Tom, you may be a nut but definitely not nuts ,the difference in my tank has made me a believer or the EI. My test kit did show small amounts of PO4 when I was using Seachem Phos. and when I started using the EI I tested the PO4 for curiosity sake and it went to a dark blue in seconds which shows to be 5.0. I then cut the amount of PO4 in half only to conserve, I'm not really sure if that was a wise move, now that the plant mass has tripled I may need to increase all the ferts. I do know your opinion of test kits, I really do hate them myself, but still use them just to get an idea of whats what.

    Sherry, thanx but no thanks I wasn't home when the Flourish ran out and I though there was another bottle in the cabinet. I have quite a bit of Seachem ferts. that I no longer have a use for now that I am using G Watson ferts. I wont go with anything else other than the Flourish.

    Naja002 yes I did add Excel. I have done this before but not since I put the vals in so I will stop using it as it is just about all anyway.

    I must add that I am seeing this melting in the Crypt wenti ,Spatterdock, Aquarium Lilles and Dwarf sags. something I did was wrong that's for sure. All the stem plants seem fine so far.
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,648
    Likes Received:
    562
    Local Time:
    7:55 PM
    Often this is a sign or poor CO2.
    You add PO4, that often increases NO3 uptake and CO2 demand.

    Plants melt only for a few reasons.
    They tend to be linked very strongly to N and CO2, it has to be something rather strong and important for them to do this.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. charter

    charter Guest

    Local Time:
    1:55 PM
    I use a pinpoint PH monitor and the level is at 6.7-6.8. I have not changed the amounts of the No3 or K2SO4, I cut back on the KH2PO4 by doing this would that give a result equal to an increase of the NO3? I cut the Val's back to two inches will they grow back once I have solved this problem? I added a small amount of Bausmans fish tonic, could the salt have caused the melting?
     
  9. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    87
    Local Time:
    7:55 PM
    You can't tell that you have enough CO2 by using a pH monitor. Get or make a drop checker and use that. Then you will know you are always in the ballpark on CO2.
     
  10. charter

    charter Guest

    Local Time:
    1:55 PM
    I do have a RedSea drop checker using a home made 4 kh sample. I may order Bill's as an insurance of correctness.
     
Loading...

Share This Page