Issues with new Discus

[Charles Crews]

I purchased 9 discus two weeks ago and all has been well until a couple days ago. One of them started to clamp one of its fins to the side of it body and would stay away from the rest of the pack. Two days later the smallest one got a bit of white stuff on his tail. http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i406/CharlesCrews/photo.jpg The white stuff went away but now his body is slightly worn, like he is lacking a slime coat.

Now the majority of them are clamping a fin and look lethargic, they all still eat and will come up front when I walk to the tank but most of them have turned a much darker shade and some rest on the bottom of the tank leaning on something to keep them semi upright.

I haven't seen any poop that isn't black, and no one is chasing anyone around. A couple of the eruptions are now nearly completely black and you can barely see their pattern. No one looks like they are about to die but I certainly know they aren't healthy.

I had a bit of a BGA breakout that I have fixed with erythromycin, today was the final dosing (on a side note its completely gone). I did a full dose then the following three days I did half doses.

Having seen the down turn in all the discus's health I did a 60% water change yesterday, and added 28 tablespoons of salt today.

Water temp is 85, Ph is 6.6-6.8, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is reading 0 but I haven't been EI dosing since I got the discus (thought I would give them sometime to get adjusted before exposing them to Nitrates).

The smallest one is just at 3 inches and the largest is a bit over 4. I have been feeding them 3 times a day, beef heart once a day, Bloodworms once and pellets once. Normally do water changes twice a week at 50%, replacing with tap with prime.

Tank is a 140gal with an fx-5 and an xp3, c02 injection with drop checker reading blueish green, I have an airstone in right now since they weren't looking very healthy its currently been running 24/7.

I was thinking about doing a dip on the discus but without knowing what the issue is its hard to tell what I should do...

I have asked around on simplydiscus but those people just hijack your thread and argue with one another or tell you you shouldnt have discus in a planted tank...

So between a salt bath, formalin bath, malachite green, formalin and malachite green, methylene blue or potassium permanganate bath what is the right option? Or should I do something completely different?

 

[Biollante]

Which What?


Hi Charles,

I will have something later; can you tell me the outcome from http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/9200-Issue-with-one-of-my-Angels?p=73342#post73342?


Is this the same tank?


Do you have two identical threads going?

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/9264-Issues-with-new-Discus
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/9266-New-Discus-Problems

If so, could you do me a favor and delete one? I am easily confused.


Biollante

 

[Biollante]

Me Again


Hi Charles,

Meant to add the reason I ask is the two symptoms look similar.

Biollante

 

[Htomassini]

A couple of things:

Cut back the co2 to nothing. With canister filters you have a high concentration of CO2. Discus can be very co2 sensitive. That looks like a fungal infection from damage in shipping. Get peat moss from home depot. It will slowly lower the ph and is a great anti bacterial agent. Use something like pimafix for the fungal issues. Stop adding salt.

 

[Charles Crews]

Yea sorry about the double threads I had too many windows open and wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. I would be more than happy to delete the other post... except I was looking around and couldn't figure out how to do it... Can you steer me in the right direction on the procedure to delete a thread?

The angels went in a QT tank to get treated, and haven't been in the main tank since the discus arrived. (and probably wont because last night they were laying eggs so I think they are pretty happy in there). The angels responded to the pemafix and melafix the white bits near the fin are gone, but the cloudy eye remains, I think regarding the eye the damage has been done and wont ever go back to normal.

Do you think there is something that has infected the main tank that is now using the discus as a host?

 

[Charles Crews]

A couple of things:

Cut back the co2 to nothing. With canister filters you have a high concentration of CO2. Discus can be very co2 sensitive. That looks like a fungal infection from damage in shipping. Get peat moss from home depot. It will slowly lower the ph and is a great anti bacterial agent. Use something like pimafix for the fungal issues. Stop adding salt.

Henry, thanks again for all the advice! I'll keep you posted how everything goes. Going to get the peat in the morning and I've already turned the c02 down. I'll do a water change tomorrow as well to get rid of some of the salt.

 

[Tom Barr]

Discus will turn dark and remain not frisky when fed etc if gassed too much, with optimal O2, this is about 45 ppm.

 

[Biollante]

Yes

Yea sorry about the double threads I had too many windows open and wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. I would be more than happy to delete the other post... except I was looking around and couldn't figure out how to do it... Can you steer me in the right direction on the procedure to delete a thread?

The angels went in a QT tank to get treated, and haven't been in the main tank since the discus arrived. (and probably wont because last night they were laying eggs so I think they are pretty happy in there). The angels responded to the pemafix and melafix the white bits near the fin are gone, but the cloudy eye remains, I think regarding the eye the damage has been done and wont ever go back to normal.

Do you think there is something that has infected the main tank that is now using the discus as a host?

Hi,

My best guess is that the Discus pictured had some injury, happens all the time in shipping and got the mycoses as a secondary infection, Saprolegnia is pretty much everywhere and is a useful fungus.

I am with Henry and Tom Barr I suspect the other Discus fish are simply gassed…:gw

Please, do not add salt.

With the Angelfish my best guess is the Melafix (Tea tree oil, Melaleuca alternifolia) and Pimafix (West Indian bay tree, Pimenta racemosa) may have suppressed, but did not cure the mycoses.

• I am not a fan of Melafix and Pimafix.
• I don’t think it is particularly harmful as say using Maracyn or Erythromycin or Tetracycline class medications,
• I just doubt the consistency and efficacy.
• http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...-melafix-pimafix-how-they-work-dont-work.html

I really think Potassium permanganate or methylene blue bath, maybe as a last resort KANAPLEX (Kanamycin Sulfate).

• If you are hinky about using Potassium permanganate paste, mercurochrome, iodine or povidone heavily dosed on a cloth and dabbed on the infected areas will work.

• A 1% phenoxethol solution, 10-ml per liter of aquarium water, if necessary a second treatment after 5 days, I would not follow on any further treatments with phenoxethol for another 2 or 3 months.

Biollante

 

[dutchy]

Hi all,

I deleted the duplicate thread on thread starter's request.

 

[shoggoth43]

Salt and discus is not something I'd mix. Perhaps as a bath and only for a few minutes at a time. If you're really concerned about using meds unnecessarily, and with all the stuff out there it's easy to waste time on meds which the nasties are immune to at this point, you can try massive water changes. Say 50% or more daily, or every other day. I will sometimes do this if I see any sort of fungus or ick on any of the fish in the tank on the theory that whatever is going on is already in the tank so cutting down on the number of spores and whatnot would help and it's probably due to some water quality stressor on the fish weakening them so they can be attacked.

A lot of your water quality issues can be fixed pretty quickly in this manner provided that your incoming water is of decent quality to start with. In most cases the incoming water will also contain a good dose of CO2 but stopping your CO2 system for right now is probably a good idea.

-
S

 

[Szkalak]

these fish can certainly be frustrating. Might I inquire if you bought these guys at a LFS? I don't mean imply that LFS stores are all bad, but I have noticed that almost all in my area have difficulty in supplying quality discus. Most seem to be of poor health nearly all the time, and purchasing these fish often requires months of doctoring and frustration. It's great if you're into being a discus doctor/resuce official. I think that the best practice is to purchase these fish from reputable breeders, which solves many of the issues many struggle with right from the start. While I am short of being a discus expert, I have stuggled with many of the same issues that you describe. While the fish are picky, I've noticed that starting with good stock makes these fish much easier to keep.

In my experience, the slime coats are discus are rather touchy; having said this, one should be rather careful with dips and salt. I have found that adding salt to the aquarium can be a great natural remedy for the minor wounds and typical infections, but I've always just added it to the tank (no table salt of course). I know that many discus keepers treat their discus for internal parasites and worms prior to adding them to their tanks with various things: parazi pro seems to be a favorite. I've treated many discus fish that display similar symptoms like you're describing by simply adding some epsom salt to the tank and increasing the temperature to around 90 degress F for a couple of days. This also work well if you notice white feces, which is often associated with some type of internal/intestional parasite. Other advanced keepers like to slowly decrease the ph of the tank to around the high 5's and increase temp for several days. This is done gradually. The main idea being the lower ph and higher temps provide a hostile environment for the bugs that are making the fish unhappy. the temp method is by far the easiest and keeps the chemicals out of your tank but can be difficult if you have other tank mates etc that can't take the heat. Give it some time. If you have a friendly LFS that you have a relationship with, you might inquire about borrowing a 10 or 20 gal tank if they have a used one, and use this as a temporary Hospital tank: prepare good water and slowly increase heat to 90 degrees for a couple of days. Monitor. If you don't see improvement overall, you might consider treatment with parazi pro. Good luck.

 

[Charles Crews]

I figure I've been leaving everyone hanging for a while and should give you guys an update: The discus have improved considerably, it seemed as if they went through the healing process in a cycle.. they all gradually turned dark (but not really all at the same time) and then gradually their slime coat became patchy. They since, one by one, have regained their color.. although now the very first discus that originally had this problem after regaining his color, is now turning dark again with a splotchy slime coat. :/

Additionally, the 3 silver angelfish (not the 2 black angels in the QT) have a patchy slime coat as well.. and their fins seems to be frayed. One is worse than the others.. so I'm hoping that we are not starting up round two of this issue. I've been doing 50% WC twice a week and the water parameters are as follows:
pH: 7.0
Nitrates: 0
Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: 0.25-0.5 (0 immediatly after WC)

I had turned off the co2 for a while and have since turned it on gradually to 2-3 bubbles/second and added peat moss. I need to turn the co2 back up a bit higher to get the plants back where they need to be, but I want to make sure the fish are all looking healthy before that happens. I am starting to wonder if this is a stress issue and not a parasite/fungal infection.

 

[aquabillpers]

" . . . and the water parameters are as follows:
pH: 7.0
Nitrates: 0
Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: 0.25-0.5 (0 immediatly after WC)" . . .

I have never kept discus, and about all that I know about them is that they tend to be "sensitive."

However, I do know that ANY ammonia in an aquarium can damage fish. If you eliminate the source of the ammonia you
just might very well solve your problem.

Good luck!

Bill

 

["Q"]

I recently lost a discus in a similar manner and I came to the same conclusion that it was a number of factors that he didn't like that eventually killed him.

To the same end, my clown loach has done a lot better since I removed a very rambunctious yoyo loach.

I never gave much credit to the idea that certain fish need things to be quiet and calm to thrive but I think it can be a big factor. Dwarf gouramies don't like to be messed with at all either it seems.

 

[shoggoth43]

I have heard that sometimes grounding the tank will help with odd issues. All of my tanks are grounded. If you decide to do this, make sure you plug everything into the same GFCI outlet. Or at least the grounding probe into that outlet. The outlet needs to "see" any extra flow to the ground and trip. The GFCI is a good idea in any event.

-
S