Is this a good daily dosage of EI?

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
Cool, but don't you think the plants will die and or melt if they are in the dark cabinet in a plastic bag without water? Or do you mean a plastic bag filled with water and then tied down (that makes much more sense to me).

And you mentioned before that there could be a TPN or CO2 shortage. Since i installed my bubble counter, it clearly shows that there is enough co2 in the tank. But how do i see a (micro) nutrition shortage?

And the last question, is it safe to add KH2SO4 once a week after water changes? e.g. 2 table spoons per 300 liters? Does that influence the Kh?
 

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,699
786
113
K2SO4 is fine to add weekly at that rate.

The plants in the bag are simply wrapped up to prevent drying out, then kept dark for 3 days, then returned to the tank. Plants are shipping this same way all over the world for 3 days, so it does work and no plants die from being kept in the dark for a few days.

Micro shortage is simple to test, but you need to address all the other parameters to see it. The other things must be in good shape before you can see differences due solely to Micro nutrients.

Generally, 5mls per 75 liters 3-4x a week of Tropica's micro mix is ample supply.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
Algue problem still is not gone. I've pruned most of the tank. 5 day blackout on the plants (take out of water, in sack, put sack in dark cabinet) did not kill it.

I've lowered my KH from 8 to 5 now, and next step is to get it to 4 or 3 (3.5) with RO. I've started with a new iron fertilizer, since the old one had a wrong chelator. With the new one, my limnophila aquatica has much bigger and compacter heads so that is a good thing.

On the other side, in the evening i tend to get hairy algue on my plants which is gone in the morning. Day in day out.

Don't know what to do next, i can post some pics if that may help?
 

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,699
786
113
It's not BGA then.
It's something else.
A 5 day blackout would kill any BGA, same with a 3 day.
If not, then the blackout did not use a bag to prevent all light from entering the tank. Or it's not BGA:)

A good detailed pic is good.

I think the lowered Kh might help, but it's mostly a CO2 issue.
I think you seem to have adjusted it up and things are doing better for the plants, but you still have a lingering algae issue. Try using the Easy Carb that is available for a week or two and see if this helps.

That and water changes, cleaning, "fluffing" the plants with your hand to detach the algae etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

yme

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
Nov 30, 2005
643
19
18
gilles :D send me this algae! I am not going to ask it 10 more times....
I can make a picture and then tom can see what it is!

greets,

yme
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
At first i though it was BGA; but rest assured; NO absolutely NO light had entered the bag with the algue.

@Yme: I'll send it to you;

@Tom: I'm trying Flourish Excel, is Easy Carbo better in your opinion?
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
Allright; a good camera makes even algue look like art:

IMG_3533.jpg


IMG_3526.jpg


IMG_3525.jpg


IMG_3534.jpg
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
This is my biofilter:
IMG_3492.jpg


Currently stats:
- Drop checker tells me CO2 is about 40;
- KH is 3 (was 8 when algue started to show)
- Weekly water changes are done every week more then 200l (approx. 50%)
- Currently 1 light is on (4000k) for 10 hours
- I add 1ml of iron daily (since then, the heads of the limnophila aquatica grow a lot bigger)
- KNO3 is added in the ammount of 40ml on monday, wednesday, friday
- KH2PO4 is added in the ammount of 30ml on monday, wednesday, friday
- TMG is added in the ammount of 30ml on tuesday, thursday, saturday

Is this oke?
 

rich815

Guru Class Expert
Jun 26, 2008
112
1
16
60
Albany, California
Until I cut my lighting period down to 8 hours I had GSA in a lot of places---and I suspect that you may have a severe GSA problem here. My plants overall growth does not seem to be adversely affected since either. That would be a good start.
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
The problem is that i only have 1 light on at the moment (!) So it can't be the light issue and also not since i allready did a 5 day blackout.

on another forum; somebody suggested that i should remove the pond rocks (second chamber, with the drop checker) and replace that with e.g. blue spongue.
 

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,699
786
113
Main thing is to be able to clean the biomedia every few weeks etc, it will rapidly clog and fill up with plant detritus. you have more than enough biomdeia, use sponges and filter bags etc for the other chambers.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
Hi Tom, i've sent the algue to Yme and he confirms that is a Cyano bacteria. However, i was in the understanding that there is only BGA which is a cyano, but are there more variants? Does Maracyn help against it? If so, i'd have to order that in the USA.

Any tips i can try before i order maracyn?

- Clean filter
- After that; add active carbon to filter out any left-over stuff?
- Second; shut down lights/co2/all nutrients
- blackout for 3 days?

Or do you suggest first a blackout, and then cleaning of the filter?
 

Tom Barr

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 23, 2005
18,699
786
113
It should respond to antibiotics as most are gram positive bacteria walled.
If not, then the blackout should knock it back.

Some plants are particularly more susceptible, mostly fine needle stem plants. Broad leaf plants are much less an issue.

So, since most fine needle plants are fast growing, have less issue getting enough CO2 compared to most other species, have a higher surface to volume ratios, they are the most affected by low nutrients.

They are also easy to remove temporarily, place in a bag in complete darkness for a few days, they might be a bit pale, then returned once the BGA is relatively dead.
Rinse the plants off well, clean the tank etc.

Looking at that filter, it's really nice etc, I do like it, but you cannot clean the sponge on the bottom easily.

I would suggest removing the rock biomedia in the first two chambers, clean the sponges really well. Clean the black bioballs and lava rock and the sponge in the 3rd chamber as well. Just rinse lightly for the 3 chamber.

I'd add a large foam block to fit in the 2nd chamber and try and fine say 20 cells foam and 30 cell foam bricks to fit the entire section.

These can be cleaned and rinsed every 2-4 weeks.

In the first chamber, I'd use a bag filter like a 100 micron felt bag:

You can take a look at these ideas:
Pond Media & Filter Felt

Polyester Bag Filter Elements - Filter Source

Bio diesel filters are generally what are used for aquariums.

These are really good and remove the organic matter.

I think you really need to clean that filter, do the water changes and kill most of what is there now, then you ought to be okay, either way, this will help;)

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
Yesterday i finally cleaned my filter. I had shut off the pump to prevent the dirt from being pumped into my tank; emptied the entire filter, rinsed the blue sponges. In the second chamber alone there was 1cm dirt (poop and plant waste i guess) piled up after i let the water calm down.

I replaced all filter material with thesame blue filter sponge i still had lying on my attic. I think it is size 30 that i have in my entire filter, but i am not sure since there is no size in 20 or 30 in the Netherlands.

If i would find size 20, should i put this in the 3rd chamber or in the first? ANyway, i filled my filter with ~150 liters of new fresh water (non osmose) and put the pump back on. This morning, allready 5 shrimp found their way back into the filter, but that is due to my fish attacking them ;)

To be updated.
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
No pictures yet, but i forgot to do a water change on saturday. I did however (as said) clean my filter on thursday and did 200 liter change of water then.

I am seeing a bit of hair algue in my tank and the green algue is still not gone, but new leaves seem to be greener (e.g. take longer to overcome with algue)

Current values;
NO3: >20ppm (i am guessing around 25)
PO4: >0.5ppm but definitely below 1.0ppm (again, guessing 0.6ppm)

Is this "correct"? My somewhat experience is telling me to add more phosphates, to get around 1.0 or 1.5 when i have 20ppm NO3. Is that correct?


-- Gilles
 

Gilles

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Aug 6, 2008
645
0
16
43
Netherlands
Small update; i've sent this message to Tom the other day:

Just a quick message to let you know what i did and what i am doing; could you read through this post and give some advise? My tank is 500 liter (or 132 gallons)

Note: Dosing calculator on James' Planted Tank - Estimative Index Explained is used.

KNO3:
Sollution: 40 grams of KNO3 to 500ml RO water gives me with 1ml an increase of 0.1ppm
Was: 3x a week 70ml, which results in adding 210ml (or 20.6ppm) weekly, resulting in a max of 41.2ppm if no uptake is done
Now: 3x a week 35ml, which results in adding 210ml (or 10.3ppm) weekly, resulting in a max of 21ppm if no uptake is done

I am not sure if i need to change this; NO3 is measured now at 25ppm.. This is acceptible for now.

KH2PO4:
Sollution: 15 grams of KH2PO4 to 500ml RO water gives me with 1ml an increase of 0.04ppm
Was: 3x a week 35ml, which resulted in adding 105ml (or 4.4ppm) weekly, resulting in a max of 8.8ppm if no uptake is done
Now: 3x a week 42ml, which resulted in adding 126ml (or 5.28ppm) weekly, resulting in a max of 10.55ppm if no uptake is done

I changed this because: I measured a PO4 of 0.7, i want to go to 1.5 so i need to add at least (!) 0.8 extra ppm in one week time.

TRACE:
Sollution: n/a
Was: 30ml of TMG 3x a week (90ml / weekly)
Now: 20ml of TMG 6x a week (120ml weekly)

CO2:
Was: 20ppm
Now: 35ppm

Lights:
Was: 154watt (0.88wpg)
Now: 270watt (2.04wpg)

KH:
Was: 7
Now: 3

GH: Not measured, i don't use GH booster (yet)
MG: Not measured, i don't use GH booster (yet)


And i received this reply:

As far as nutrients, these look great for dosing and measured values(assuming they are correct).

You look to be on your way.

If you have any algae issues or want to help resolve them, try reducing the light to .88w, then only have the high light 2.07 w come of for a few hours, maybe 3.

That plus some Easy Carb ought to resolve a lot of issues there.

After things settle down after 2 -3 weeks, then return the normal routine.

You cannot over do water changes either, dose thereafter.

If there is an issue with a tank, I often use the Easy Carb + 2-3x a week water changes, clean the filter, prune(after cleaning, pruning, I do a large water change).

This typically takes care of things.
It can be a lot of work for a week or 2, maybe 3 at worst, but then it's easier to care for afterwards.


Tonight, an update with pictures and off course my new lightning schedule.